Wednesday, September 18th, 2013
35

Ask Polly: Am I Just A Booty Call?

Dear Polly,

When is it too soon for an ultimatum? What is a good sign to leave something that's showing complications?

Although it is early, I have been seeing this guy for around 5 weeks. He lives down the road from me (1 block) but we ironically met online.

He is a 21-year-old bachelor, a major player who has never had a real relationship, not to mention he has been with more girls than my fingers and toes, doubled. He is a guy living with guys who has moved out of home less than 12 months ago. He is extremely passionate about his job, to the point it gives him anxiety. He knows he has to settle his bachelor ways down if he wants to do well and gain a respectful name in the industry he is in. He is Italian and very good looking and by all means has everything going for him.

Myself, 21, I moved away from a small town on the other side of the country to a major city just under 12 months ago. I have travelled to Europe and done countless things on my own. I have grown and my career and life is just beginning to blossom and I am at the point that I am ready to find someone to at least enjoy spending time and being young with. Commitment maybe on the cards but not until I am comfortable and it's at least reciprocated.

He and I first off exchanged numbers on the online dating website, then began talking—at the time I was seeing other people, nothing serious but I felt the need to meet new guys and explore my surroundings. He stuck around and even if it was a text a week, I would still hear from him. We got to the point where we decided we should meet, I suggested we have a coffee and he admitted he was socially shy and that the thought of having a coffee on a first meeting scared him. I reassured him and said I had done it a million times before. Leading up closer to our meeting, we exchanged photos of us and he called me gorgeous, etc. The D day came and I never heard from him. I mean, not even a blow off text. I didn't hear from him until Monday the following afternoon when his "phone apparently screwed up." Although I knew it was a lie, I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and asked did he want to meet that night. He accepted and came over.

I reaffirmed to him that if he were to come over, he wouldn't be "getting lucky." He said he didn't have that in mind. He was just happy to get to know someone new. We talked and got to know each other. He was quiet and wouldn't look at me and I thought he wasn't interested until he locked eyes with me and we kissed. He told me about him wanting to settle and have a relationship, that he wasn't one to kiss and tell and he wasn't the most perfect of guys. None of which bothered me as I know plenty of imperfect men. We hit it off really well. I received a message from him the following day, "I felt I got extremely lucky albeit you saying I wouldn't get lucky when I came over."

We met up at my house two days later and the same thing followed. I would say that the sexual tension was building up from there.

The following week we had sex. That became a regular pattern, hanging at my place. I felt like a convenient booty call. He did say he felt lucky because I was like the girl next door. The following week, I house-sat for my friend and we were supposed to see a movie but his work got in the way. Later in the week, his family was another excuse. All apologies were lengthy text messages, but I couldn't help but feel a little skeptical. Then he came over after dinner with his family the last night I was house-sitting and stayed the night. We slept, talked and cuddled all night and he left midday the next day.

Then he became inconsistent with his texts, saying he has been busy with work etc. We caught up last Wednesday and went for a walk to the park, where we talked and cuddled. Having not been physical for three weeks, there was a lot of sexual tension and with his housemate waiting for him in the car out front, we sneaked into his house for a thrilling quickie (my first time at his house). After that we made plans to see a movie Sunday night.

Sunday comes, and I had not heard from him for almost 3 days. He texts me at 6 p.m., telling me he had been out with his brothers, out of cell reach and that he was with his parents but might be able to come over later. I advised him I wouldn't be available and maybe another time.

He texts me the following day, asking to catch up, I had a free night after dinner with a friend and he came over. I decided to pop my sexy night wear on and give him a little surprise as I was in high spirits after a bottle of wine at dinner. We have sex, we kiss, talk, spoon. After a couple of hours he leaves. He cuddles me and kisses me saying I'll text you sometime in the week.

By then, I was fed up…

I messaged him this:

First text:

Hey. How was your day?

Last night was so much fun and I am genuinely enjoying getting to know and spending time with (and being cheeky with) you. I was wondering though if we could possibly try something different outside my four walls next time we hang out? What do you think?
Sent at 4pm

Second text:

I just want to make it clear, I am not asking for a date; it would just be nice to have a drink or a coffee with you because right now I just feel like a booty call for whenever it is convenient for you. I want to make it clear that this is not what I am after and before I begin to really care about you, I think I should save myself the heartache and maybe let you find a girl who is just more suited for what you're after right now.
Sent at 8:16pm

Third text:

I am sorry. I just wanted to express how I feel as I would much rather not get hurt and I would rather be open and honest with you.
9:50pm

I have heard nothing. Now all the signs are pretty clear he's playing me big time, but did I do the right thing in giving him an ultimatum?

Sincerely,

Square Pegs, Round Holes




Dear SPRH,

The term "ultimatum" doesn't really apply here, but you certainly did the right thing in asking "Can we see each other during the day, in public, or are you a vampire?"

Moving forward, though, you have a very specific sort of a problem. Your problem is that you're a very attractive woman with an easy-going nature and a great phone for tapping out very long texts. This combination of factors is going to bring you a whole hell of a lot of agony if you're not careful.

Before we delve into how you're going to avoid said agony, listen to me very closely: We're going to talk about some of your missteps, but that doesn't mean you should feel bad about them. Almost every woman alive has made the exact same mistakes fifty million times. You shrugged off his initial blow-off. (Cue giant memory reel.) You encouraged him to meet you at your place instead of out in the world somewhere. (Cue larger, X-rated reel.) You proceeded to meet him in private repeatedly, never insisting that you two hang out in public like someone he actually takes seriously or gives a shit about. (Cue firing of old familiar insecurity synapses.) And then, horror of horrors, you asked for more from him, but via text! And you kept explaining yourself, via text! (Cue sound of nails being hammered into coffin.)

Dudettes of the universe, listen to me. Never ever fucking explain anything, ever. Cue up "Hush Now, Don't Explain" as sung by Billie Holiday. Make that your goddamn jam for life, people.

But, Round Hole, you're doing the universe of Dudettes a giant service by submitting to us your actual texts for close critical examination. Right now I want to zoom in on a particularly interesting passage in Ill-fated Text #2:

"I just want to make it clear, I am not asking for a date."

Q: What is wrong with this statement? A: THIS STATEMENT IS FALSE. Unless by "Let's try something different outside my four walls" you actually meant wrestle wild boars or make mud pies in your back yard, what you're asking for is, in fact, a date. You want a date.

So what happens when you ask for a date but then you back up and claim that's not what you're asking for? 1. You sound crazy. 2. You sound like a liar. 3. You sound like someone who doesn't know how to stand up for what she wants. 4. You sound like someone who settles for less than what she really wants, then gets crazy and lies when settling for less starts to fail you. 5. You sound like someone he could very easily take advantage of, in private, indefinitely. Easy in every sense of the word, but not in an exciting sort of a way. (Not that he matters, mind you, because he's not your guy. He is yesterday's bad news.)

Now, keep in mind, I'm not saying you did something outrageously fucked that none of the rest of us single women and former single women haven't done so many times it makes our feet itch just contemplating it. No! You did something very, very normal. Everyone has a stint as little miss "It's not like I want a boyfriend or anything" and "Dating? What's that? That sounds silly, tee hee!" When you make the words coming out of your mouth sound cool and casual like a Liz Phair song? OK, fine, a Ke$ha song? You pay.

Instead, tell people exactly what you want. Here's my revision to text #1: "Last night was fun. Let's go have dinner on Wednesday. Are you free?" Message received. Outcome in this case? No different. But—bonus!—you don't have to feel like a sea slug on the bottom of the ocean floor over it, because you didn't sound needy or liary or crazy, and you didn't leave the tiniest door open for someone to slide their piece-of-shit Square Peg back into your Round Hole again.

You know what "I'm not asking for a date" does, though? It encourages neighbor guy to PUNISH you for requesting a date by avoiding you for a few days or weeks, but it also guarantees that the next time Dipshit gets horny, he's back at your door (after he's done having fun somewhere else with people he doesn't mind seeing during daylight hours) (like, um, his actual girlfriend?). Don't think for a second that this thing is over in his mind. Once you make it clear that your Round Hole is open for business 24-7, you'll never shake off the nervous pussy hounds of the world.

You're in danger of being used over and over, and feeling like you're nuts and the problem is you. You, of all people in the world, must pay very close attention to how much a guy actually likes you. Yes, I know you long for sex just as much as any guy. We all do. But do you truly want to be giving it up, then sending needy texts and then claiming you don't want anything, JUST PLEASE TEXT ME BACK ALREADY? Do you really want to feel like the hot slut down the block who's never met his friends?

Even if you take the attitude of "I'm in control of this. I don't care what guys think, I want sex and I'll get it whenever I want it"? You've still got to assume that guys think you're a piece of ass. Which absolutely wouldn't matter if their perspective hadn't been used to make women feel like second-class sub-human half-persons for several centuries running. But these things do not occur in a cultural vacuum. If you're treating him like a piece, and he's treating you like a piece, and you tell your friends, "He's kind of a snore, but great in the sack " and he tells his friends, "She bores me, but she sucks a mean cock," well, in theory, that should work just fine. On the planet Earth, in the country United States, though, you're the one with a problem. He overhears you objectifying him? He feels proud. You overhear him talking about how you polish the family jewels like a pro? You want to kick his teeth out AND you feel like a dirty little Hoover who doesn’t even deserve a real-live boyfriend. Sorry, but you do feel that way and you know it, and if you didn't you'd be some kind of an alien life form who doesn't feel real feelings.

OK, fine. If you NEVER EVER feel demeaned by such talk, and you REALLY TRULY DO NOT WANT A BOYFRIEND OR A DATE, then that's a whole different story. Clearly, I have no personal beef with promiscuous women. The world is packed full of proud current and former sluts. We keep the wheels of modern industry turning, as a matter of fact. (Can we please reclaim just that one word, slut? Please? Don't make me give it up.) Because sluts' dreams really do come true. Believe it. To loosely paraphrase a wise man from "Deadwood," those who seek to denigrate us suck cock by choice.

Nonetheless, if you want a boyfriend, or just a date? Never, ever pretend not to. There's no shame in asking, flat out, to be treated like a human being and not a secret, hidden stash of late-night ass. (And no shame in BEING a secret, hidden stash of late-night ass, if that's your dream. Many of us dreamed that dream in time gone by. Hopes weren't the only thing that were high, either, me mateys!)

So here's what you have to do, Round Hole:

1. Resolve to never, ever meet someone for the first time at your place, OR to spend time with a guy who asks to meet you at your place instead of out in public. It's not even SAFE to meet some creep at your place for the first time. Go out on at least three dates in public without sleeping with him. Get to know him. Listen to what he says about himself. Pay attention to how closely he listens to you when you talk. If he's in the least bit distracted, make it 4 dates. On the fourth date, please ask yourself, "Is this guy even interesting? Is it worth my time to sleep with him and get all attached to him, when I'll have to listen to him speak like this, on and on and on about shit I actually don't consider all that interesting?" These are questions that plague his brain within seconds of meeting you. The least you could do is ask yourself the same questions eventually.

Now, I'm not saying that every woman alive should wait for date #3 to sleep with a guy. But those of us who have trouble waiting? And then we wonder why guys treat us with vague indifference, like we're a half-eaten bag of chips that fell in their lap and they weren't even sure if they were hungry in the first place? We need to cut the "I'm too awesome not to do whatever the fuck I want!" routine and start protecting ourselves from ourselves a little.

This especially applies to you women who like to drink a lot, play pool, watch random bullshit on TV, shoot the shit, play videogames for hours on end, tease, insult, hit the bong, go with the flow, etc. You're in as much danger as Round Hole here, because men are going to want to have you around for both the good hang AND the bonus sex. BUT: That doesn't mean they actually love who you really are deep down inside. Know what I mean? I think you do. Let this be your mantra: THREE DATES. Three really good dates. If you want to fuck around occasionally, fine, but you've been warned.

2. Resolve to never send more than two short texts in a row without a response, and never, ever send long Big Important Question texts. (This is to protect your emotional state, not his.)

While we're at it…

3. Do not seek answers. If you know the guy is super flinchy, why bother? You can simply ask for what you want. Don't ask how he feels. He's either going to step up and show you how he feels, or he's going to skank around looking for round holes elsewhere. You don't need to add extra-demeaning rejection and IGNORE on top of the ignore you're already getting. Protect yourself. Don't hang yourself out to dry. That's you being mean to you. You're worth more than that.

4. Don't explain yourself in elaborate detail. God, if I could take back my long, long emails about everything my heart ever desired! Oof. Half the time, all I needed was to say, "Do you want to get together Friday? Because this is starting to seem half-hearted, and I'm not all that interested in half-hearted, half-assed dalliances at the moment. I have other candidates waiting for your spot." Ok, that last part could, in some cases, be a lie, but it's a lie that says, "Of course I'm in demand, dummy." So it's worth it.

And you know what? Other candidates ARE waiting for his spot. Maybe those other candidates don't know it yet, but they will, once you reinstate your online profile and you start to make it crystal clear that you are not interested in any screwing around, half-assed, round hole routine. Instead, stick with having coffee.

But put on your skeptic's cap. It's not just about "Is this guy a player?" It's about "Does this guy actually like to listen to ME when my mouth is moving? Does he want to know all about ME? Is he anxious to know if I'm dating anyone else? Does he want to do things together during the day? Does he find me singularly interesting and special?"

And even if he does like you, don't dive right in immediately. Spend time together. See how you feel. Maybe you want to jump his bones, but does he really seem like a good guy? Does he have any friends? Does he like to talk about emotions at all? Is he someone your friends would like?

Enough with the vampires. You don't need ultimatums, you need hard and fast rules for yourself, to keep from getting entangled with bullshitters. The world is filled with them. You should hold out for better. And when you don't, you should at least know better. Because once you walk down the path to Booty Call, you can't just text your way into a different category.

So that happened. It sometimes does. But now let's try this a different way.

Polly




Are you in a relationship that grew out of a booty call and you wonder if he or she was ever really in love to begin with? Then write to Polly already.

Heather Havrilesky (aka Polly Esther) is The Awl's existential advice columnist. She's also a regular contributor to The New York Times Magazine, and is the author of the memoir Disaster Preparedness (Riverhead 2011). She blogs here about scratchy pants, personality disorders, and aged cheeses.

35 Comments / Post A Comment

pandabear (#248,470)

to the LW: girl, this is IT right here. I didn't know this at 21, or at 22, and I got it at 23. take every word of her advice because all of it is total, complete truth.

Don'tcallmeJenny (#245,210)

I would just like to add, from my personal experience, that even *if* you are seeking out a booty call type relationship you are going to have a way better time with it if you at least vaguely enjoy the other person's company even if they aren't your one and only true love. As a woman it made it a lot easier to initiate the sexy times AND if you know the person is a decent human being you can be relatively sure that they aren't going to be talking about you in demeaning ways to their friends.

queenofbithynia (#248,471)

The lesson to be learned here is nothing about not fucking when you feel like it and everything about figuring out that you don't want to waste time on a guy who got all the way to 21 without learning the difference between "albeit" and "despite."

A Snood Mood (#1,737)

@queenofbithynia Oh god yes. That made me itchy.

blueblazes (#238,044)

@A Snood Mood Glad I'm not the only one. That is a 21-year-old manchild trying to sound smart. Which… no. Just no.

Shane McIan (#224,023)

@queenofbithynia Yeah I got to that part and physically cringed. Poor child.

Myrtle (#9,838)

@queenofbithynia the word choices and lack of eye contact made me wonder if he's Aspie. As did the stunted social choices. But that doesn't excuse anti-human behaviors towards LW; nothing does.

Man the "you don't need to explain yourself" part. Fuuuck. That hit uncomfortably close to home. I notice it's something women do more than men, at least in my anecdotal experience – maybe we're just socialized to add disclaimers to all of our needs worrying that otherwise they're unjustified. In addition to selling ourselves short and being sort of cowardly, it's also just incredibly unflattering.

taigan (#11,267)

@Kath Barbadoro@twitter Yes, exactly. I used to be a classic overexplainer. I was 100% sure that, if I threw enough words at a problem, everybody would understand and agree with me. This is such a gendered issue, and being the explainer totally undermines you in both personal and professional settings. I have no idea whether the two are connected, but once I stopped doing this, I experienced a rather mercurial rise in my chosen profession. LW is lucky to receive this advice at 21; I didn't learn this until 30-ish.

shannanigans (#242,679)

I wish there was a way to send this letter and Polly's response back to myself circa 2000.

NOT THAT I WOULD HAVE HEEDED IT.

shannanigans (#242,679)

But put on your skeptic's cap. It's not just about "Is this guy a player?" It's about "Does this guy actually like to listen to ME when my mouth is moving? Does he want to know all about ME? Is he anxious to know if I'm dating anyone else? Does he want to do things together during the day? Does he find me singularly interesting and special?"

Okay, so this. THIS is really hard to do well when you're 21 (or 25 or whatever). Guys like this are like this because they are so good at *acting* like they're listening to you. Like they want you to themselves. Like they find you interesting and special. Most women don't fall for good looks, they fall for charm.

Until your bullshit meter is finely honed (which I'd say takes about a decade or so), the question you need to ask yourself is "When do I get the charm from him?" If it's only via text after the bars close, or when he's alone with you, or immediately before or after intercourse – guess what, girl? He's playing you!

km1312 (#45,006)

@shannanigans "Most women don't fall for good looks, they fall for charm." Never truer words were spoken.

A Snood Mood (#1,737)

I find the LW's description of him as being "quite a player" and sleeping with tons of girls to be at odds with his initial anxiety about meeting for coffee. Dude is all over the place and squirrelly as heck. I agree with Polly that he's got at least one regular girlfriend (if not more than one) who already think he's deeply committed to them.

No matter what the guy's damage is, Polly's advice here is really, really great.

Titania (#8,471)

@A Snood Mood He's 21. She's 21. He's not a player yet, and she's not a slut yet. Both of those are terms indicate a well-worn groove, a series of choices. He's a cheater/liar/flake and she's just too young to know the difference so she's choosing a sexier reason he's not calling her back.

RobotsNeedLove (#236,743)

I read this thinking oh god WHY are this lovely young lady's predictable and boring mistakes posted on the internet in excruciating detail? And then Polly told us why.

Polly is wise, young lady. Look at the people around you, who get what they want and are admired and desired. Do they explain themselves when they ask for what they want? Do they lie about what they want? No, they do not. Just ask for what you want.

And don't talk yourself out of asking for respect and romance because you aren't sure you want to marry some dude. Us younger ladies do that, I think. We are so committed to being non-committal, but we get our feelings hurt. Just cut it out, and go on dates with dudes you may dump one day. It's ok. That's how it works.

blueblazes (#238,044)

Great answer or THE BEST answer? I didn't figure this out until I was almost 30. Praise be to Polly. (And thank god texting wasn't really a thing yet when I was in my 20's.)

Titania (#8,471)

Piling on just to say that THIS IS ADVICE TO LISTEN TO, LW! If you're not capable of following it now, bookmark it and come back to it in two years when you're feeling not just fed up but totally kicked around and you don't know why. This is the answer.

Did I write this? This advice needs to be give to every woman when they turn 20, or something because if I had seen this back then, it would have saved me a lot of embarrassment. Ew.

alliepants (#204,157)

Not explaining myself is my favorite thing ever. It's gotten to the point where I need to force myself to do it more often because I'll think I'm fine and then realize I've been drunkenly picking fights with somebody and sounding like a crazy person and they're thinking "umm what is this lady doing."

alliepants (#204,157)

@alliepants But as more evidence of how powerful not explaining yourself is, they still stick around while wondering "ummm what is this lady doing." MAGIC.

Danzig! (#5,318)

"he has been with more girls than my fingers and toes, doubled"

"he admitted he was socially shy and that the thought of having a coffee on a first meeting scared him."

When I first heard the term "chick magnet" I thought it was some sort of metaphor but in light of this letter I'm starting to think chick magnetism is an actual physical phenomena, because wow, how does this happen. Certainly he isn't completely bullshitting with one or more of these claims.

fried mars bar (#3,055)

@Danzig! Maybe LW only has like three toes.

"being cheeky"?
The mere fact that you call it that tells me you're not ready.

wee_ramekin (#33,118)

@My Number Is My Address
"He is a 21-year-old bachelor, a major player who has never had a real relationship, not to mention he has been with more girls than my fingers and toes, doubled. He is a guy living with guys who has moved out of home less than 12 months ago. He is extremely passionate about his job, to the point it gives him anxiety. He knows he has to settle his bachelor ways down if he wants to do well and gain a respectful name in the industry he is in. He is Italian and very good looking and by all means has everything going for him."

Him?

rebecca@twitter (#228,800)

God, I need to print this answer out and iron it onto my brain …

THIS. Everything about this! Everything!!!! Thank you, Polly, for a beautifully-crafted, empathetic manifesto of all the truths a 20-something girl ever needed to know about dating and self-love. This should be mandatory reading for every girl leaving college.

doraleigh (#239,253)

Just chiming in to say WHERE WERE YOU in 1997 or so to give me this advice? But since we're (approximately, I'm a bit older) in the same demo, I guess you were also out making Round Holes' same mistakes. Over and over and over again, if you were me. It took me a while to learn this (on my own — without the benefit of a Polly/Heather), Round Hole, but I did. And you will too.

Also, thanks for this: "When you make the words coming out of your mouth sound cool and casual like a Liz Phair song? OK, fine, a Ke$ha song? You pay."

tmsmqwx (#248,649)

"I think I should…maybe let you find a girl who is just more suited for what you're after right now."

Unfortunately, contrary to your belief, you are perfectly suited to what he's after: a woman who unwittingly allowed herself to become a side piece.

"'Is this guy even interesting? Is it worth my time to sleep with him and get all attached to him, when I'll have to listen to him speak like this, on and on and on about shit I actually don't consider all that interesting?' These are questions that plague his brain within seconds of meeting you. The least you could do is ask yourself the same questions eventually."

Indeed!! The problem with many women (I didn't make this up, this came from my wife) is that the things that are on YOUR brains within seconds of meeting us is stuff like what our children will look like. You've already totally bypassed the mundane stuff (like whether or not he can hold a conversation or a job or even a thought) and gone directly to the wedding day. This is how you end up realizing that you ARE the booty call – you had your head in the clouds during the installation process!

I have a niece who had a baby, planned and executed her dream wedding (completely wrong sequence, but that's another post), and moved to another town away from her family, all before she realized the guy couldn't even maintain gainful employment. He took out all his frustrations on her, then left her with a toddler and moved back home to live with his mother. I'm not saying their relationship started out as a booty call like Ms. SPRH – I don't really know. I do suspect the same mindset plagued both situations – emotionally, she went straight to the end and skipped the middle, while he was thoroughly entrenched in the beginning.

km1312 (#45,006)

Polly really knows how to cut me to core sometimes:

"This especially applies to you women who like to drink a lot, play pool, watch random bullshit on TV, shoot the shit, play videogames for hours on end, tease, insult, hit the bong, go with the flow, etc. You're in as much danger as Round Hole here, because men are going to want to have you around for both the good hang AND the bonus sex. BUT: That doesn't mean they actually love who you really are deep down inside."

ugh, I think I needed to hear that.

audraaudra (#249,068)

@km1312
Yeah that bit slapped me in the face pretty hard. I just learned that lesson the very hard way about 2 months ago. One day I'll finally realize I probably dodged a huge bullet.

aranchno42 (#248,764)

"That doesn't mean they actually love who you really are deep down inside."

Well, I wouldn't love him for who he is, deep down inside, after 3 dates either. But what do I know, I'm that go with the flow, 25 year old.

However, I am now dating a man that goes out his way to charm me and make me laugh…in public! In front of people! Makes a total world of difference in how I view the relationship.

Belladona1126 (#249,357)

Polly, wow, yup, sometimes you have to hear it from straight -ks than. I had this thing with a guy for about 8 weeks. He was so attentive, called every day , text in the morning, told me how great I was and how he did not want to see anyone else, blah , blah, blah. Then he went on a business trip for a week, called and sent texts every day . Hmm I thought this could be the one. He was cut, great body and smart (not as accomplished as I am but doing ok). Then he came back to our city (late flight) so I went over (date #2), of course after all the flirting and calls and text messages and still recalling the glory of our first date I could not help but sleep with him. Yup 2 or so hours of great sex I was leaving to go home – omg, he practically through me out of his house – really. Then I refused his calls and he begged me to forgive him . I did, bad idea. Several late nights at his house, and two Saturdays of broken dates and ignoring my calls all day on Saturday and I had enough. He begged me again to see him and I did (twice) but this time I refused both times to be the naked booty call and well needless to say he was upset – I just smiled and said I don't want the body without some heart. He was always annoyed if I asked to talk to him about not wanting just a physical relationship. I said I wasn't sure he was that kind of a jerkoff but his refusing to at least let me talk to him was a sure sign he was that jerkoff and not for me. I called him a child and left – dignity in tact. It took a little pain but I see I was becoming his bootaaa call- horrible feeling. I was thinking wow, maybe he does not want to be seen with me in public and then I started looking around at all the men who were staring at me and remembered I was fine – he was the problem. I almost let him take away my happy , confident spirit -. Bella

moderniste (#250,334)

One of the unfortunate side effects of 2nd wave feminism is that women no longer allow men the chance to chase them. And men, well at least *most* men need to feel the excitement of the chase to maintain the fascination. I know it's difficult, and after a lifetime of being a bold, fearless woman, feels all wrong. But ladies, at the start of things, you gotta let the man lead. And don't be afraid to make a guy want to step up; i.e. don't become his worshipping slave right off the bat–make him work. He WANTS to work.

Rachele (#257,149)

Polly, You that is absolutely wonderful what you had written.Thank you. This is my first comment to ever put down on a forum. You hit the nail. I even copied and paste just to read over and over again .

rajpaj (#260,616)

I hope that the guy referred to goes to hell…. just like every other piece of shit with dubious upbringing and even more questionable integrity…. no girl should ever let a lowlife like this into her life, let alone her place. These bitchmen are opportunistic and have little to lose and even less to offer but their stale bitter beer faces. I feel sympathetic to the girl. Guys know better but use women when they can instead easily hire a prostitute which is the best they truly deserve. And sometimes the repercussions are severe, and it is precisely at that time when they disappear. This girl clearly has her shit together, was probably thinking that she was worth a date, but doesn't want to seem pushy like snooki or peg bundy and actually respects this douchebag, because she was never taught to disrespect and doesn't even see that he's a lowlife because she texted him with so much tact and regard….in the event that this happens to her again, I would advise to kick the guy out even before he has a chance to use the restroom and never respond to his bogus, regurgitated texts again. What is a shitshow from the start can NEVER turn into anything. The initial time spent together, the foundation of any future time spent, is forever tainted with disrespect and lies. These bitchmen are akin to babies…if you were to dangle a shiny new object (or hoochiemama) in front of them they would forget about the previous ornament, clap and drool like their underdeveloped minds have grown accustomed to. 21, 30, 45 , 60..age doesn't matter… by the age of 15, every man knows what type of person he's going to be….a respectful one, or a disrespectful one….unfortunately, this girl is basing her self worth and is trying to negotiate with a Neanderthal…..too bad for her….she should give up and move on…..to him, and TO HIM only, is she a screwjob…..the rest of the world probably adores her…I don't know why girls date online….it's the biggest scam ever….this hits home for me…..although it was not online this guy even told me he never takes girls out to eat, his first meetings with girls are at dives of places he never frequents….he never once picked me up for a date…I always drove myself there like desperate ninny, and by the time I got there he and his sidekick of choice were halfway done with their appetizers so it always looked like I barged in imposing on their cozy dinner plans…..once I invited him to go to Cheesecake factory and he gets there before me, picks a corner table outdoors in the scorching heat because he didn't want to be seen with me in public….when we would leave any restaurant he would make sure to keep a minimal ten pace lead in front of or lag behind me so no one would see us together…..I sweated this piece of crap for nearly 6 months because I cared for him…because in addition to all this other complications were involved….I couldn't be happier he's out of my life…he made me feel like shit the entire time we were together….ugly and unbeautiful…… and when it ended he made me feel so bad about myself……personally….I told that mofo off….get rid of these losers and let them breed with prostitutes….they don't deserve any better…and if a guy can't vocally call you on his telephone, and only texts, that is an immediate sign of sketchiness and should be avoided. don't even respond to texts. if he wants you he'll call and show affection and he will reassure you..

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