Thursday, August 11th, 2011

What Will London Become?

London should check in with Rudy Giuliani on how to crack down on criminals.Thu Aug 11 12:47:18 via web

Today, London is tearing itself apart again—in Parliament, where they are talking, essentially, about how to reconfigure society. Prime Minister David Cameron would like, among other things, the ability to assess whether the state has the "right to stop people communicating via these websites and services." You know: by using, like, PHONES and stuff. Meanwhile, a man has been charged with "riot incitement" for his Facebook messages. My favorite bit of his speech: "Cameron said he would encourage people to shop their neighbours if they have mysteriously acquired a new plasma TV screen." (Yes: "shop" is "English" for "narc.")

And yes, why not, Newt Gingrich? Giuliani Partners already had a $4.3 million contract with Mexico City and another with Citgo Petroleum, AKA Hugo Chavez's oil company. (And see also: New York City, 1998, as Giuliani began bleeding millions in settlements for victims of his law and order.) So you know he knows the ins and outs of helping to form a restrictive state.

33 Comments / Post A Comment

Hirham (#1,709)

The Guardian mentioned last week that Cameron would rather like to hire Bill Bratton as the next head of the Met, the last one having walked over the phone-hacking mess.

I blame Google+

keisertroll (#1,117)

@NotAndersonCooper I blame the failure of Google Wave.

assembledwrong (#13,310)

Where does this Newt guy do stand-up? He's funny!

MParcells (#375)

Newt does know that this whole thing started because of a Giuliani style crackdown on a "criminal"?

boyofdestiny (#1,243)

Isn't this how V for Vendetta started?

Well, in fairness, Giuliani does have a lot of experience with petulant youth who act out in public.

Lockheed Ventura (#5,536)

@Clarence Rosario Leave Giuliani's son out of this.

keisertroll (#1,117)

@Clarence Rosario 9/11.

magicofmakin20 (#22,829)

@clarence rosario you have no rights to say that

Tulletilsynet (#333)

Looting and arson also reconfigure society.

roboloki (#1,724)

newt is a toad.

Legs Battaglia (#2,484)

I've basically just been thinking that this would not happen in NYC because the NYPD would just shoot a bunch of people and then everyone would go home. Is that correct? Not saying that this is a good thing (at all), just that it's what I picture happening.

Lockheed Ventura (#5,536)

I don't quite understand this post. Shouldn't the UK Parliament, you know the democratically elected government chamber of the people, have an open discussion about the most serious urban unrest in over 30 years. Seems to me that would likely be a good thing. Not sure they will solve anything, but it is something that should be encouraged.

If you engage in drunk driving which leads to manslaughter, guess what, you can lose your right to drive a car. If you use a hand gun to commit murder, your access to hand guns is usually compromised, so I don't see why someone who is uses social media to plot violent attacks cannot be banned from using Blackberry Messenger for a year or so.

Its not like the UK is not already a complete surveillance state so I don't know how much more civil liberties can be compromised. As for Giuliani, the man has many faults, but he did do wonders for creating a slightly more civil society in this City. That does not justify his many excesses, but I see nothing wrong with consulting with the man, although I think Bill Bratton should be the person they should consult with.

The reality is, they need to rehab their riot control policies to be more pro-active and more importantly the police force should be more decentralized so that local municipalities are not waiting on Westminster ministers who are vacationing in Greece to make real time logistical decisions with regard to an evolving crisis.

Lastly, why shouldn't you report on a neighbor that engaged in rioting. Is it because it was all for "social justice"? Tell that to the parents of the three young Birmingham men who were run down in the street by looters. So should witnesses to this murder not come forward? Bullshit.

When did the AWL adopt a "NO SNITCHING" policy?

roboloki (#1,724)

maybe they should ban cops from shooting people in the chest.

Niko Bellic (#1,312)

@Lockheed Ventura So should witnesses to this murder not come forward? Bullshit.

So should The Awl be shut down? Bullshit!
(See how that works?)

deepomega (#1,720)

@Lockheed Ventura: "The police will have new powers to order people to remove facemasks. "On facemasks, currently [the police] can only remove these in a specific geographical location and for a limited time," Cameron said. "So I can announce today that we are going to give the police the discretion to remove face coverings under any circumstances where there is reasonable suspicion that they are related to criminal activity."

Yes, the problem is not the gov't talking about what to do, it's the gov't thinking the problem is instant messaging and face masks.

LondonLee (#922)

It's a problem when it comes to arresting the little fuckers. It's not "the problem" obviously, just as Cameron being on holiday when it all kicked-off wasn't either.

Lockheed Ventura (#5,536)

@deepomega Face masks are banned at protests in New York City. I am generally pro-face mask, but it is not without precedent or reason. See out nation's history with respect to the Ku Klux Klan. Many municipalities banned masked protests in order to curb the KKK. It is not a clear cut issue in my book.

I don't think anyone is banning instant messaging, but it seems perfectly reasonable that if instant messaging is being used to organize looting, arson and murder, then the authorities should have the right to shut down the service for a reasonable time frame. For example, if there was a reasonable belief that there was a cellphone activated bomb in Times Square, then the NYPD bomb squad would have the right to shut down cell service until the bomb could be deactivated.

Lockheed Ventura (#5,536)

@Niko Bellic I read the post as listing wrong headed proposals to address the Riots. I actually think everything listed is actually reasonable, including a call for witnesses to come forward and report, I mean "narc", on the looters. When you catch looters of televisions, you will also find those behind the more serious crimes.

roboloki (#1,724)

big brother loves you.

Niko Bellic (#1,312)

@Lockheed Ventura It's not that the proposals are unreasonable, it's that they are at the enforcement level, which is way too low coming from a PM. If PM is going to talk about tactics, who is going to address the root causes? He sounds like a cop, which is fine if you are a cop, but who's gonna lead the nation?

Lockheed Ventura (#5,536)

@Niko Bellic I don't disagree that Cameron was engaging in agitprop, but you know, he is a politician and that is what they tend to do.

In Cameron's defense, and I preface this by admitting that I had no interest whatsoever in the structure of the Met Police until this week, but apparently in the UK, local pols do not control policing and in fact the Met Police policy is actually a national issue that is controlled by Westminster, not the Mayor of London.

On the plus side, this means that the Met is professionally run and not subject to the whims of a local boorish demagogue (not naming Giuliani, but he often fit this bill). The downside is that the police are not as responsive to local needs and due to the national nature, may not be as adaptable in the case of a crisis, as we saw this week. Basically they lack the American concept of Federalism and the corresponding crazy/rainbow patchwork of local governments.

Oh man, I missed some really thrilling discourse this week.

keisertroll (#1,117)

If London wants to be New York so bad we could just give them the Mets.

Tulletilsynet (#333)

Let's send them some New York real estate. The Meatpacking District. Times Square …

LondonLee (#922)

No thanks, we already have Hoxton and Picadilly Circus.

Tulletilsynet (#333)

"Valuable Merchandise, Please Do Not Loot. Does Not Contain the Mets or Times Square, LOL."

BadUncle (#153)

That's right, Knifecrime Island. The secret to law and order is cracking down on dancing in bars, jay-walking and sidewalk vending.

amuselouche (#448)

@BadUncle Who will squeegee their lorries now?

@amuselouche : Fun fact! In Britain, squeegie men are called "wipeybarns" or "swabbie-nonglers".

boyofdestiny (#1,243)

@Gef the Talking Mongoose This can't possibly be true.

deepomega (#1,720)

@boyofdestiny: Yeah, he's just pulling your leg. In Britain, squeegie men are called "bonnet-tuggers".

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