One Voter Explains: Why I Support Scott Walker
We've published a lot over the last couple weeks about the battle in Wisconsin over labor, and nearly always been critical of Scott Walker and the Republicans. So I found a reasonable 20-something Wisconsinite named Sarah Helms, who was willing to explain her support for Scott Walker and his bill. Her answers have not been edited at all.
The Awl: Where do you live, work?
Sarah: I'm currently unemployed since returning from my tour in Afghanistan. I'm planning on starting school next semester. I live in Madison, WI.
The Awl: How would you sum up your reasons for supporting the bill?
Sarah: From what I've read it seems that Walker is trying to restructure how money is divvied up and to lessen, and eventually eliminate, the possibility of receiving more funds than needed for certain programs and organizations. I believe that taking away unnecessary bargaining rights for public employees, especially teachers, is important to our students in order to improve Wisconsin's education system. It seems that teachers are afraid of being paid what they're actually worth.
If we pass this bill we might see a change in the quality of teacher that comes to our school system and a significant weeding out of bad ones. If there's one field where jobs should be EXTREMELY competitive, it's in schools. If there ever were a profession where job performance should hold the top ranking reason for better pay and incentive, it's being a teacher. Why do teachers deserve to get paid better than everyone else? Just because they say so? All because they formed a little elitist club that's good at bitching. They're taking paid days off of work and leaving children all over the state with an even worse education. All because they think they deserve to get paid better based on their motivation to argue rather than their actual (sub-par) performance. Some teachers even encouraged students to join a walk out and march to the capital. When the students got there, they didn't even know why they had come or what was going on. That's a prime example of the lack of willingness to actually educate students.
The Awl: Do you believe that removing collective bargaining is a core need of the budget or would you still support it with just the increased benefit payments?
Sarah: Why would public union workers accept the part of Scott Walker's bill that makes them contribute more into their pensions and pay a more reasonable amount for their health care but want him to compromise on the part that would take away some of their bargaining rights? Is it because they want to LOOK like they are making a sacrifice? That way they can greedily strike again and get back what they lost in only a few years. Then what would have been the point? It would be idiotic to propose changes in benefit contributions AND NOT take away their right to bargain. If teachers don't like how they're being paid, or any other employee for that matter, then they should chose another job location or field.
The Awl: Have you ever been part of a union?
Sarah: I haven't been part of a union. I imagine if I were part of a union I would probably be firmly persuaded to oppose this bill. To be a sheep and join the herd only to be led to the wolves.
The Awl: You went to Madison Area Technical College. The budget will cut $71.6 million from the state's technical college system, about 30% of the system's funding. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Sarah: I believe that schools should run on the funds they receive from students in the form of tuition. If they believe that it isn't enough money then they need to restructure the way they do business. They should cut back on unnecessary spending in order to operate within their means.
The Awl: Are you on, or have you ever been on, BadgerCare (or similar state Medicaid)?
Sarah: I am currently on BadgerCare but only use it for one prescription. I receive health care through the VA for being a veteran.
The Awl: Did you vote for Walker?
Sarah: Yes, I voted for Gov. Walker and I'm proud of my choice. I did a lot of research before I made up my mind. The right to vote comes with the responsibility to make an informed decision. This can significantly lessen the chance of regretting your judgement.
Abe Sauer can be reached at abesauer at gmail dot com.
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I do like how the idea is that we can incentivise people by paying them less.
No thought given to the fact that the more talented people who would want to be teachers will simply not enter the profession.
Right? Jesus Christ, why would anyone pay money to go to college for teaching when you're going to be paid dismally and forced to deal with people like this (who feel they own your shit because you have the misfortune of teaching their Galt-esque children) all the while being squarely blamed for every systemic flaw in the education system and fucked whenever an election cycle rolls around and some ham-handed governor wants to make hay for his soon-to-be-doomed presidential run.
Wisconsin easily has one of the best-rated education systems in the country, too.
Let the market do its work, and we'll ultimately achieve the libertarian dream – white people in the gated communities with good schools, browns out getting the shit.
Don't worry there will be white poors too. There is enough poor for lots of people. I guess we'll all just home school in the future.
Now don't be silly. We must give incentives to work harder for the CxOs of the world because they're worth it! Teachers and public employees are certainly not worth such ivory tower treatment. It's logical!
@Danzig!
I haven't heard of a teacher in our area having to cash in their spouse's retirement so they could keep working. It's happened to farmers. Farmers spend more hours awake, work with dangerous equipment, and work more days out of the year. Farmers get up at three in the morning on Christmas morning to milk their cows. Yet there are still plenty of students attending college for Dairy Science. Even when farming doesn't require a degree. These people do it for the love of it. I highly doubt that the best of the best teachers, the ones that love their jobs and enjoy it, are going to quit or that the students who want to work with other kids are going to stop just because of lower salary.
Hoo boy.
This is not a "reasonable person" and the sooner we stop referring to people who spew shit like this as "reasonable people" just because they aren't openly racist douchebags or something, the sooner we'll be in a better place.
It's useful to remember there are people who are diametrically opposed to everything I've learned and believe, although I do wonder how teachers earned such venom (or cynicism) from Ms. Helms. I also wonder where teachers are paid so royally well. I've never known anyone who was more inclined to work harder by knowing they would be paid less.
Them awful teachers made her do homework obviously.
I would have like to have followed up the remark about well-off teachers are with the question "So how much do you think teachers actually make?" That would have been good for loads of entertainment.
@Signal to Noise
How much do you think farmers earn? The men and women that work holidays, wake up at 3 a.m. and go to sleep at 10 p.m.? The ones that have no incentives to work? The people that are slowly being forced to work two jobs or sell their farms entirely because we have no unions to fight for us?
Haha, "her answers have not been edited at all" is probably the nicest possible way someone could say "and now our readers are going to judge you for being a moron!"
Wow. This is considered 'reasonable'?
I think she mistook "What's your take on this issue?" for "What are your issues?"
what the.
'then they should chose another job location or field.'
You realize how much of an investment becoming a teacher is?
First off you have a 'teaching' degree, which must be updated with courses and portfolio reviews to retain certification and a litany of other bureaucratic hoops just to be able to continue teaching.
Then there are the constant battles with boards and communities (especially the elderly) who are constantly trying to strip resources away from the education of their own children.
Being a teacher is something you hopefully go into because you like kids and have a passion for education, but it requires monumental effort outside the classroom and by the time you reach any level of stability, simply 'entering another field' is not really an option.
Sorry for the rant, my mom is a teacher.
I suspect she has a close…connection…with a teacher as well.
FREE MINDS FREE MARKETS HERP DERP
Well, Walker wants to make it so that teachers in charter schools don't need teaching licenses. So there goes that pesky investment/commitment.
I assume Sarah Helms would also be in favor of getting rid of VA benefits and the GI bill, since that is communist socialist welfare for shiftless layabout unemployed soldiers. Fine by me. If she doesn't like it, she should have gone into a different field.
As someone on BadgerCare for all my prescriptions (even the ones that are currently keeping me alive that will probably be cut and kill me), I wonder if this woman wouldn't mind giving up her spot on BadgerCare to someone more worthy? She's the dead weight in the system, and she should see that. My taxes pay for this ungrateful woman's VA provided health care, the fact that she is scamming the system and receiving government provided care elsewhere beyond the VA when she doesn't need to is something that I find disgusting.
The list to get on BadgerCare is quite long, and there are people who need it as opposed to this person.
All because they formed a little elitist club that's good at bitching.
She zinged us, you guys.
Well, the folks supporting Scott Walker serve as their own evidence that something is wrong with our education system.
@Moff
Dear Sir Moff,
I am an Honor roll student, president of my 4-H club, vice- president of my class, past sectretary, treasurer, and historian of my 4-H club, in the running for Valedictorian, thinking about majoring in a career that works longer hours and pays less. And I support Scott Walker. I feel that you should be notified that you're above statement contradicts itself.
Sincerely,
Hardworking students everywhere.
@Jade: "Your above statement," kiddo.
"I believe that schools should run on the funds they receive from students in the form of tuition." Then why didn't she go to private college instead of one that takes state money? Why doesn't she cut out unnecessary spending instead of going on welfare for that prescription? Your "beliefs" are unimpressive you keep hypocritically acting against them.
Would Ms. Helms be afraid of telling us what teachers are actually worth being paid?
Seems she'd need to have any idea whatsoever what they ARE paid to make a suggestion.
This. She implicitly argues that only employers and the unfettered free market should decide what people are worth. Never mind that laissez-faire capitalism combined with a world of poor desperate people results in any individual being worth almost nothing. Certainly not worth a living wage, safe working conditions, or freedom from discrimination. Collectively, as in unions and democracy, people are worth much more.
I'm all for the free market and competition as a tool in the societal toolbox for building a better world, but holy crap do a lot of safeguards need to be kept in place to prevent exploitation. She doesn't seem to realize that it's this combination (including unions) that built pretty much everything she takes for granted.
The debate is being framed incorrectly. This is not Governor Scott Walker or anti-union people against the state workers and the teachers union it's the tax payers of Wisconsin looking for their voice to be heard. The state government does not have money it obviously comes from the neighbors of the teaches and state employees. Less than half of the states employees (47%) are union. Union does not equal middle class by default. The union members in Wisconsin affected by this bill are less than 3 percent of the taxpayers in our state. Of the remaining 97 percent the majority are "middle class." they are being asked to pay for salaries and benefits they themselves can never dream of having. Example, Madison teachers have an emeritus program that pays them 19% of their salary plus all other benefits for three years after they retire. In Green Bay the teachers get 33% of their salary for three years after retiring plus all of their other benefits in exchange for ten days a year of work. Corrections officials schedule two shifts the second pays double time. they skip the first shift and work only the second. Six bus drivers scam the overtime system and make over 100k a year. One made 159K. Spineless republicans and bought and paid for democrats have sold Wisconsin taxpayers out for years. There are good teachers don't get me wrong. I'm for merit pay and let us fire the bad ones. I welcome the debate in Wisconsin so a little light can be shone on the corruption that has been stealing from the Wisconsin middle class for years.
To FYI Your posting would be worth looking at if you provided evidence for your statements
Don't you have to pass a test to join the military?
It's worth noting that she's not in it any more.
I wish you'd asked her why she thinks it's the teachers that are somehow single-handedly responsible for a state's fiscal insolvency. Because five-figure salaries are the problem?
"Why do teachers deserve to get paid better than everyone else? Just because they say so? All because they formed a little elitist club that's good at bitching." – Sarah
"I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living." – Dr. Seuss
"I haven't been part of a union. I imagine if I were part of a union I would probably be firmly persuaded to oppose this bill. To be a sheep and join the herd only to be led to the wolves." -Sarah
Which wolves, you ask? Why the AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE WOLVES, of course.
You know I never understand the point of an "opposing voice" piece like this. It either comes off as a shoddy attempt at a strawman argument or an interview of an imbecile.
Both ways are just a waste of my time.
Must disagree there, STC. It's good to know what everyone is thinking, good to expose this kind of refusal-to-see-reason (expose it far and wide!) and best of all to try to persuade everyone to use facts and not slogans if they want to participate in public discourse.
Sorry, Maria, but I'm with STC here. Especially since the opposing voice here is an asshole. Either Abe is genuinely claiming everyone supporting walker is a raging jackass (which, from what I've read of his writing, might be how he feels!) or he's trying to paint them as such. Either way, I don't like it.
Gosh I don't know? Isn't this just a real supporter, and he just asked her these questions and she answered them? If so where is the "claim"? Do you think there are Walker supporters who would answer these questions very differently? Where's the coercion here? Abe took pains so as not to obtrude his own views, and the questions are as vanilla as they could be.
I don't know about you guys but my own conservative relatives sound just like this. They watch Fox and they really believe this stuff … or I guess I shouldn't say "believe" because it doesn't proceed from having had anything proved to them with facts or whatever. They're choosing to take on these convictions without facts or proof, it seems.
Yeah, it has the feel of trying to paint them as assholes. Except I know people who make these very same claims verbatim. It's actually rather creepy how similarly they've been programmed.
Huh! I did not get that feeling! I think because my own brother sounds but exactly like this, all the time.
I don't think it has to be either/or here, deepo. Can't it be, at worst, "here's one asshole"? Abe doesn't strike me as the type of guy that wouldn't say "Everyone supporting Walker is a raging jackass" is that's what he genuinely believes.
@barnhouse: My own conservative relatives don't, although I think it's kind of goofy to get into anecdata here. I'm more frustrated because I think trying to find a Walker supporter who isn't a raging jackass would be more meaningful! This is the equivalent of RedState running an interview with a protestor who is claiming that Wisconsin is the Egypt of America. (Unless, again, the goal is to claim that there are no non-jackass supporters of Walker, in which case….. well, I'd like to have a word with the political desk at TheAwl if that's what it's claiming.)
@boy: So what purpose is served by interviewing one asshole? What would everyone be saying if the asshole was a pro-Union protestor? What would it imply if that asshole pro-union protestor was tongue-in-cheek-ly described as "a reasonable 20-something Wisconsinite"? The whole tone of the piece is "Ha ha, the people I disagree with politically are ignorant shitheads!" T o which I say, there are ignorant shitheads everywhere, Abe, I don't need you to tell me that.
Can't it also be, "this is a real person who lives in Wisconsin and believes the following things." Which is a catastrophe, all by itself, and bears a lot of thinking about.
@deepomega I get the frustration, certainly. But I don't think Ms. Helms should just be dismissed out of hand for being an "asshole" … she took the time, she answered the questions, she didn't just scream at Abe or tell him to go live in France … ?
@barnhouse: I'd be less irritated if it were that and it weren't in the context of Abe's coverage of Wisconsin. Which has been great, as far as it goes! But it has also been steadfastly certain that there is no other side to this argument. I guess I'm saying, why is this particular person a catastrophe worth writing about? Would these 800 words be better put towards, I dunno, a discussion of which collective bargaining have been trashed and which haven't? Or to talking to someone who is not just a gibbering loon of a conservative?
@deepo: I guess it depends on where you stand. I've yet to hear an argument from a Walker supporter that doesn't make the person sound like a raging jackass, but I'll admit that's because I'm a pretty firm partisan. What I would be interested in seeing is how Ms. Helms's comments compare to the comments of the Republican lawmakers that Wisconsinites have chosen to represent them. As in, who is speaking more for the mainstream of conservative Wisconsin sentiment: Ms. Helms, or the non-raging-jackass that you would have liked Abe to have sought out? I don't have an answer, and that's not quite a rhetorical question.
@boy: I've been staying low on this because frankly I think union bargaining rights in one field in one state aren't worth a lot of argument. But here are some non-jackass arguments!
- Walker made a counteroffer thursday that would've added backin a bunch of collective bargaining rights, minus dues checkoffs (basically the government deducting union dues right from the paycheck rather than the union doing it themselves) and I think maybe stripping the ability to fire non-union-joining teachers? Haven't seen any discussion of this, or why a non-union-leader would care, except for the obvious fundraising-for-democrats angle, which is an embarrassing reason to be opposed!
- Collective bargaining would not be affected for wages, even with the current version that passed yesterday.
(And apologies in advance if any of this shit is wrong – it's hard to find specifics on what is and is not affected!)
All this is to say, none of us know who is representative, and this piece does nothing to change that, except probably to push readers slightly more towards "anti-union conservatives in Wisconsin are jackasses." Which is why I'd rather see something more substantive.
@deep: I haven't seen anything about a counter-offer from Walker. Not saying you're wrong, but can you provide a link?
A GOP state senator did propose a compromise, under which the ban on collective bargaining would apply to all state-worker unions, including police and firefighters, and only last for two years under a sunset clause. The reason it was unacceptable is that Wisconsin's governor has a line-item veto — Walker could have struck the sunset clause and signed the bill.
Seriously, though, it is, as boyofdestiny says, difficult to find a Walker supporter who makes sense. Even if you believe cutting collective bargaining will help the state budget in the long run, there's no compelling reason to ram the measure through, especially in the face of significant public outcry. It's also hard to believe Walker is sincere about anything when, you know, there are clauses in the alleged "budget repair" bill that allow for things like sale of state power plants to the buyer of his choice at whatever price he decides on; how is that sensible business? And then of course, there are the events of the past 24 hours, which indicate that in fact the ban on collective bargaining is not a budget-related matter at all.
No one, so far as I can see, can lay all of this out in a way that makes Walker's position make sense.
Oh, and lastly: No offense to you, but this notion that there are two equally worthwhile sides to every story is a fiction that has to die. It is entirely possible that all the anti-union people in Wisconsin are being jackasses. Jackassery is, in fact, already so widespread in our society, on so many levels, that it should not strike anyone as surprising that it might totally pervade an entire side of a big political debate.
I mean, we know that people who oppose gay marriage are being jackasses, or that people who want schools to teach creation theory are jackasses. There is clear evidence that millions of people can, down to a one, all be jackasses whose position has no redeeming merit.
@Moff: I'm not saying there are two equally worthwhile. I'm saying, first off, there are no *sides*. There's a whole continuum of opinions on unions, on compromising on collective bargaining, etc. And TheAwl's coverage has been pegged at the pro-Union side of things. And while I'm sure we can at agree that opposing gay marriage is jackassery, I think we've heard a lot about opposition to it, frm street-level people, etc. And I also think that a lot of the opposition is religious, which is to say, not so much rooted in argument or discussion. But that's not the case here!
Regarding compromise, check this shit: http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/wisconsin-governor-scott-walker-proposes-union-compromise/wisconsin/
What I find frustrating is the attitude that the Republican response to wide outcry is any different to how Democrats pushed through the healthcare overhaul bill. It's not, even down to using a procedural move to sidestep a fillibuster. (I'm counting leaving the state as a very elaborate fillibuster.) And while I agree it's not about budgets, it's also not about wages – see the compromise above. Republicans wanted to limit union fundraising by squashing their ability to deduct union dues. Democrats wanted to not limit union fundraising. This seems to be the nugget at the heart of the matter – which NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT.
@deepomega Ezra Klein has consistently focused on the Democratic fundraising aspect of this matter (and the one just like it in Ohio), as have a number of others in political-pundit-land.
The main difference between this and the Dems pushing the Affordable Care Act through is one of public support. Wisconsin citizens did not and do not support the Walker bill, not even according to a poll conducted by Dick Morris.
@barnhouse: I'm having trouble finding old data from during the health care debate. Nate Silver says approval of the bill was in the mid-40s in November 2010. So definitely unpopular? Not as much as in this case, of course, but I think the comparison is apt.
(And thanks for the correction on Klein – I hadn't read much of what he's written on this. It's tough to pull everything together on this issue, I've found – each writer seems to write about one particular aspect of it, or to just repeat things without sourcing it to the bill or whatever)
The polling on healthcare was misleading because opponents who would have been happier with single-payer were lumped in with the libertarians. There was a lot of talk at the time about this on DailyKos where it was pretty clear that the majority of single-payer advocates preferred the ACA to nothing at all (of course there were some who wanted single-payer or nothing.)
@deepo: you are correct. there is no filibuster in wisconsin so denying a quorum was the only other option for denying a vote.
@deep: Thanks for the link. Here's the local daily's reporting on it.
I don't have any idea whether Walker's compromises amount to much or are relatively worthless, but I think you're absolutely right that it's, at root, largely about fund-raising. (I even wrote a blog post about it a couple weeks ago!) That said, I think there are, broadly, two competing perspectives (yes, there's always a spectrum, but spectrums have poles), and one is much more tenable than the other: State workers want their collective bargaining rights, including stuff like dues collection and mandatory membership, protected because a union without those things is so crippled as to be not much use as a union. And, yes, they don't want to limit union fund-raising because those raised funds support Democrat legislators who help support their quality of life.
On the other hand, Walker supporters want to impede union fund-raising not so much because it will actually improve their quality of life (at least, it hasn't been demonstrated convincingly that it will), but because…why? I mean, I understand why Scott Walker wants to do it—it'll surely improve his standing with the GOP. But there's not a great deal of logic that suggests it'll help many of the people cheering for him.
As for health-care, I can see the similarities. But the differences are salient: Obama campaigned on the issue. The final legislation was worlds away from the plan many of his supporters initially hoped he'd implement, and represented huge compromises with Republicans (and is, I believe, pretty similar to GOP health-care proposals of years past).
@moff
"No offense to you, but this notion that there are two equally worthwhile sides to every story is a fiction that has to die."
I call this the South Park Equivalency fallacy.
Yes. Everyone who supports Walker IS a raging jackass. At best.
Deep, I am trying to think of a more fair way for this interview to be presented, and I can't. The only commentary is in the introduction, which left me with a favorable impression of the interviewee (that her answers promptly shit all over).
Is it just one voice? Sure. And if Abe was looking for the angriest, most unreasonable voice he could find, then he should be ashamed of himself. Mainly because holy hell he could find someone more shocking than this if he just put in a little effort. This sounds like pretty standard mainline conservatism to me.
I have a couple teacher friends outside of NYC with right-ish leanings who are having very hard times keeping their heads from exploding these days.
What I love about this person is how she seems to hate government, aside from the funding that she personally receives as a veteran for healthcare and education and from the state for her "one prescripton", and maybe also for being unemployed.
The same government that told her exactly when and where to shit for a large part of her "adult" life.
@joshc: that's not "government," that's just this person's due. Because entitlements are…just that.
Well, Walker was voted in by Republicans so it's not surprising to read a Walker supporter, particularly a young one, touch on the classic, intergenerational right wing shibboleths: hostility to unions, hostility to educators, the miracles of the free market, and so on.
Everybody in the country is watching WI closely because just about every state is in some stage of the exact same financial crisis. In California, for example, the cascading collapse of the state employee compensation ponzi scheme is well underway and will continue for years and years to come. In my state the scrambling has finally begun in earnest — and my city's unfunded public pension obligations continue to balloon alarmingly as business downtown (unionized and non) continue to die and home foreclosures continue apace. The crisis is not a symbolic, abstract numbers thing but very real and very scary.
I've thought that the unions and protesters in Madison have somewhat missed a public relations opportunity here, because their message has been almost entirely "We are good people doing valuable work and deserve fair compensation." Which is true and all fine and good but deserve's got nothing to do with it. What you want to do is to get everybody thinking about a different target, something that sucks up a ton of money and is massively corrupt and costly and wasteful. As a country, for example, we need to finally get very serious about defunding the military.
You're right, though Robert Reich once wrote that the military is "a jobs program."
we need to finally get very serious about defunding the military
That's an interesting proposition, and not one that I'm opposed to exploring.
But remember that one of those intergenerational right wing shibboleths is using the military as an international 911 call for the frightened and behousecoated in Peoria. "There's a rag-head 8 time zones away who wants to destroy my freedom. Quick, send the 82nd Airborne!"
There is certainly a lot of military spending that can be cut in ridiculousness like the F-22. But viewed as a social program, the military is really, really valuable to a lot of people.
walker is trying to restructure how money is divvied up. take from the poor and give to the rich. it's anti-socialism!
Yeah, can we negotiate to take away her veteran's pension, participation in the VA, etc. (and do it all post hoc, after she's already delivered the service that was HER side of the bargain) and see how she feels then?
What a depressing, terrifying mess of half-(and/or mis-)information and poor conclusions. If she actually did "a lot of research" and still voted for Scott Walker (and, worse, continues to support him now), either her sources were wildly biased in his favor or her brain is actually broken.
She wants to see better teachers, and she appears to honestly believe the collection of ridiculous talking points she's been fed: "wisconsin teachers are greedy and overpaid, and they produce poor results, and unions are evil." That's sad, and it shows (as if we needed more examples) what kind of damage the right-wing propaganda machine can do to the informedness of the public.
So, is she a jerk for opposing what she believes to be bad? No, probably not. Is she an idiot for buying into that heap of nonsense in the first place? Yeah, pretty much.
Oh my god. Where to even begin.
How about: This makes me mad. I am not going to let this person ruin my country.
Too late!
Don't MAKE me do my impression of David Tennant as the Doctor! This is NOT over.
I am going to make you do your impression of David Tennant as the Doctor. Youtubes or it didn't happen!
Wellllllll….
So she's filed one or two tax returns, if at all, and she talks about "we?" More grumbling about who pays her tuition, &c.
I thought I was over-exaggerating, but I just read up on the Combat Zone Tax Exclusion.
"[I]f you serve in a combat zone as an enlisted person or as a warrant officer (including commissioned warrant officers) for any part of a month, all your military pay received for military service that month is excluded from gross income."
All of Afghanistan is a designated combat zone. So even the fucking fobbits eating criminally overpriced KBR chow don't end up paying for it, just us ordinary taxpaying schnooks.
My favorite part is where giving up a greater part of a paycheck (to pay for needed health care and retirement) only looks like a sacrifice. Having less discretionary income is not, apparently, an actual sacrifice.
More and more, I'm getting the impression that conservatives don't believe that "more money" is what they need to balance the budget. I'm seeing a lot of "fewer rights" moves?
@DoctorDisaster
I'm am sincerely interested in how you suggest the goverment comes up with "More money?"
@Jade Well, if you're sincerely interested:
Refresh the tax code. Keep the general principles of the graduated tax but overturn the bloated loophole-laden monstrosity we've been patching and repatching for the past several decades and start with a fresh set of unambiguous guidelines. That alone will raise major revenues, primarily from people rich enough to afford accountants to find them obscure tax havens that would no longer exist. So far you don't have to "raise" taxes at all, you're just ending bullshit like $0 tax on profits for GE.
Rolling back the rates themselves, which everyone is discussing, is a sensible option; unlike many so-called "conservatives" I think there's nothing wrong with looking back to a more prosperous era and emulating their financial policies. But it's an inefficient move if we've still got this labyrinthine legal mess shielding people from paying their fair share.
I would also suggest we wring efficiencies from some of the more bloated segments of the budget. Defense has tons of projects like the F-22 (which I mentioned on this page last year) that are wasting piles of money on crappy tech. Recent changes in Medicare drug benefits are, I have been assured, a similar boondoggle. Stuff like "end the obscenely expensive occupation of foreign countries" is so obvious I don't feel I should have to point it out, but it will nonetheless drastically shrink our budgetary outlays.
Children are teh future! Teachers are important! That's why I talk about them as if they are beneath contempt, and think that the key to improving our public education system is to pay teachers less, so that it becomes more… competitive?
Sorry honey, that wouldn't make sense even if education was the for-profit enterprise you seem to think it is and/or should be.
"I believe that taking away unnecessary bargaining rights for public employees, especially teachers, is important to our students in order to improve Wisconsin's education system."
Stopped right about there.
Maybe she is really a robot like that one Edith posted the other day and was sent by The Machines to make us lose our minds? Somehow I'd rather believe this version, even though I know what barnhouse and others above say about their relatives being like this exactly is so true. :(
I WENT TO PUBLICLY FUNDED SCHOOL AND I RECEIVE PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFITS AND I WAS A GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE BUT I'M FUCKING SPECIAL SO WE SHOULDN'T HAVE PUBLICLY FUNDED SCHOOLS OR PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS AND FUCK GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES – Stupid assholes everywhere
Ah, the crushing irony of a poorly-educated person trying to make it harder for others to get a good education.
CountFosco!? My heart be still! (Evidently you have been on a diet!)
This is why the democratic strategy needs to be more cunning. Most people are too stupid to know what’s good for them.
If Sarah were convinced that ending collective bargaining would lead to, say, garbage in the streets, firehouses closing down, no police forces, no schools, and general public chaos, she might have arrived at a different position.
The arguments Democrats put forth try too hard to be truthful and reasonable. They need to be more inflammatory and emotional, if they are going to win against the Republican hyperbole that people like Sarah have internalized as gospel.
I voted for him because he looks so smart.
I appreciate how hard it was to find ANYBODY supporting Walker.
I look forward to the upcoming series "interview with a random New Yorker who we will then all make fun of."
Sarah Helms: Thank you for answering the call and for your excellent and articulate interview here. Brava.
I'm going to assume you're sincere. I'll give you this: Ms. Helms had guts to give this interview. But that doesn't make the responses any less mindless. Sorry, Ms. Helms, but you've been brainwashed at a drive-through car wash with the top down.
As for your avatar: Can the guy be in office for maybe 20 minutes before you start pimping him for re-election?
I'm absolutely sincere, KarenUhOh, especially in my gratitude for Sarah Helms's military service under Commander in Chief, President Barack Obama.
As for my avatar: Others are calling for a recall of Governor Walker. I dissent. If you have a problem with that, you have a faulty understanding of the first amendment to the U.S. constitution.
No, actually, thinking someone's avatar is stupid does not bespeak a misunderstanding of the First Amendment. One can think it's stupid and still appreciate your right to be stupid.
Also: What does Sarah Helms's military service have to do with anything?
Also: While it makes sense for one side to want Walker recalled, because he's already done something they don't like, it is kind of illogical to be pushing for his reelection already, because he could totally do something in the next three and a half years that you don't like. So, I mean, there's not really a direct equivalence there.
Also: Why I am saying these things to you? It is really nice outside.
Good grief, from the husband of a constitutional law professor no less. *sigh*
Hurry, Abe, flash mob at the Capitol! Get up there NOW! Show me what democracy looks like!
Sorry I had to be at work so that my tax dollars could support your wife's income which allowed you to be there for it. Thanks for the info though.
"I'm currently unemployed since returning from my tour in Afghanistan. I'm planning on starting school next semester." Oh, I get it now. You have no education and no job, so you think people who have both must be getting paid too much.
@GoGoGojira
I'm disappointed that you would speak that way about the men and women that risked their lives to let you KEEP the freedom that let you post that comment….
After spending several hours reading all of the opinions of those who are against Gov. Walker I have come to a conclusion. Those who leave vial comments of others opinions must be the "uneducated and unemployed" but feel better calling others what they really are. Or they are teachers or state workers, who do in fact deserve the boot! I'm a stay at home Mom of 3 young school age children and I can speak from experience some teachers need to go, and those teachers who do what they are expected to do, that is teach with an unbiased opinion of anything will be rewarded. And really people we live in a free country, what ever happened to being civilized?! Is that too much work too?! Manners? The Golden Rule?! That's right we can't teach that in schools any more….I think I had better transfer my kids to a private school, so they don't end up like most individuals posting hateful comments (no….we aren't wealthy we live on 35,000 a year with a family of 5, no food stamps no badger care, and we own a home, my husband and I both have bachelors degrees and we are thankful for what we have!)…because my family knows how to live on a budget, and we think for ourselves, clearly and with an informed mind!
Thanks for doing this interview. The Walker attacks seem to drown out the proud supporters. I hope everyone feels confident to show their support by posting signs, wearing shirts, etc. Here's one clever shirt (hopefully there are many more!) "Recall Walker? Of course I do, I voted for him." http://www.printfection.com/support-walker
I'll rebut 1 thing I had experience with firsthand: "Some teachers even encouraged students to join a walk out and march to the capital. When the students got there, they didn't even know why they had come or what was going on." Trying to live here and not talk politics during Feb/Mar 2011 was as impossible as trying to live in the Midwest and not see a Christmas decoration in December. Seriously. Many of these kids' have parents in unions in this city. Madison is a city heavily populated with state union employees since we have both a flagship state university of 50,000+ students and it is the Capitol city of Wisconsin. No need for any teacher to talk to them about what is going on or fire them up. I was there and took pains to speak with students who walked out. Certainly there were some kids-especially the youngest – who just went along with the crowd with little knowledge of what was up. But I also ran into some really eloquent high schoolers. The particular set of kids I talked to at length were all in a group in a coffee shop sitting next to me. Their teachers refused to speak about the politics of the protests with them for fear of being reprimanded. They organized the walk-out themselves.
omg you all win like it derrectly effects you It's funny how fear of freedom effects thoughs who love bondage read the facts schools that accepted the bill will not lay off there teachers and they and maybe just maybe they will start earning there pay instead of just babysitting