Prop 8 Trial Ends–Just As We Learn That Lesbians Raise Better Kids
The Prop 8 case in San Francisco will have closing arguments this week, putting an end to what seems like several decades of a very strange case. (It started in January!) What's kind of great is the the judge (the gay judge! But never mind! Nobody look at the gay judge!) is going wide on the matter, posing a long series of questions that he wants answered in closing, such as: "What evidence in the record shows that a belief based in morality cannot also be discriminatory?" Mmm! What's more, somehow, one of the key arguments of Prop 8 supporters is that "children fare best in families with two opposite-sex parents," which, haha, suckers: now everyone knows that children of lesbians fare better than anyone else. Oh, yes: "the 17-year-old daughters and sons of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts."
Hey, i'm all for it but comparing 78 offspring to a "normative sample of American youth" doesn't tell us much of anything except that "planned lesbian families" are probably much more financially and psychologically solid to begin with than are, you know, a normative sample of American ANYTHING.
Team Hetero doesn't need to draw up any child-rearing game plans or schematics- we just start poppin'em out whenever, 'cause it's easy!
That point would be crucial if the burden of proof were on the gay-parents side of the case. In fact, the lesbian-parents study is only illustrative of the fact that child development is influenced by a variety of complex factors, of which having opposite-gender parents is apparently not the most significant.
What makes me optimistic here is that "what about the children?" is a fallback position, a desperation ploy. That the anti-marriage-equality forces are having to resort to so desperate an argument suggests that the tide may be turning.
Good argument for planned parenthood! Bad argument against lesbians adopting.
Aw, c'mon Choire, how could you not include the fabulous first clause in that final sentence? "According to their mothers' reports the 17-year-old daughters and sons of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts in Achenbach's normative sample of American youth."
Lesbians lie a lot. THAT I can tell you from anecdotal evidence.
One other thing to note is that people arguing in this trial are relying on studies MUCH less well-constructed than this one. Like the study where lesbians "described" their sexuality as more of a "choice" than gay men did. OY! Science!
I, for one, would prefer that Achenbach would stop sampling American youth. Didn't he learn his lesson in Venice?
Achenbach's sample is likely based on the child behavior checklist (CBCL). The CBCL has a survey for parents, a survey for teachers, a survey for the kids themselves, and a few others. A comparison of the normative sample's parent reports versus the parent reports in this study is perfectly valid, and should be followed up with similar comparisons of the same informant groups.
GOOGLE, BITCHES!
@Cieca (1st comment): Are we sure the burden's on the anti-gay-marriage folks? After all, it's a currently operative ballot initiative that the plaintiffs are frying to strike down.
Also, any idea if this evidence actually got before the court during trial?
Abe: The study's results were controlled for race and economic class. So it's not a case of "rich lesbians raise better children than poor heteros."
@riot: I haven;t seen that control statement. But anyway, it cannot be a true control. First of all, this group came forward to be studied, which, to me, means they are probably already a prouder/confident parent. Second, well, the post sums it up: "Gartrell's study follows a particular slice: Lesbian couples who were together before the child's birth, identified themselves as a lesbian couple, and went through the artificial insemination process." More here:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/06/08/lesbian-parents-their-well-adjusted-kids-what-the-study-really-means/
The problem is that all the VERY specific finding is being trumpeted as "lesbian raise better kids" which is EXACTLY the kind of sloppy summary that the LGBT community is usually on the working end of, gays donating blood etc etc.
@Setec: Yeah, if the plaintiffs have argued, as I believe they have, that the law impinges on a constitutional right, then then defendants have to show that Prop 8 is narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling government interest. If the compelling government interest they're claiming here is raising "well-adjusted" kids, or something like that, then they would certainly have the burden of showing that Prop 8 achieves that.
@Abe: Everyone's a proud/confident parent before the baby is born. They enrolled in the study before the kids came along.
I'm also not sure that the identifiers of the "particular slice" are at all significant. The first is a logical necessity; the second, the only way the study can be performed; and the third, again, more an argument for planned parenthood than against lesbians with kids.
the pack of wolves that raised me were all lesbians.
HE WAS THE PROBLEM. Choire you crack me up.
Still tittering over "Nobody look at the gay judge!"
How can you NOT!? Prrrrr!
Fine, lesbians. Go ahead and have "happy" children. But we all know God's Plan is to have children working in shoe factories and pulling sleighs.
Not letting them eat much keeps 'em in line, too. Makes them more appreciate when they do get their crust or bowl of gruel.
My stable of 4-year olds get to weave their own whips, which I will lash them heartily from the upholstered comfort of my rickshaw. Some cute little callouses!
Mollycoddler. Mine make excellent chimney sweeps. I put scrub brushes in their little hands and raise and lower them down the chimney like human pipecleaners.
Speaking as a four year old who sweeps chimneys, I can say that I have been very well prepared for the economic and moral rigors of modern society!
You're welcome.
Gah, I should conjure such genius! Just for that barb of jealousy, I'm sending 4 of my runts to dig a ditch (which I'll make them fill back in and re-dig about 5 times, consecutively) and I'll have another 4 go hunt me a fox, with their teeth.
(…Can I hire you as a consultant? Bill me for whatever fee you like, as I can take it out of the runts' "wages"- and if that doesn't suffice, I can garnish their sharecropper parents living in the cardboard boxes by the creek on my vast estate.)
Better solution is to have the hunting children hunt another randomly selected child. Survival of the fastest.
@deep: What, are you saying you're faster than the rest? That you deserve another Animal Cracker?
@Art: If you were referring to hiring moi and not Deepo, I will accept the urchins' wages as they will likely be too weak to spend them anyway. I've got a car that ain't gonna Simonize itself, so send them over when that ditch is done.
@scroll: you're hired- deepo needs to shut his little crackerhole and get back to work.
I was raised by Ted Danson, Steve Guttenberg and Tom Selleck. Now I can never find my keys, never ask for directions when I'm lost and always leave the toilet seat up.
Tell us about how your Dad Selleck is a closet gay. Let's start with that 'stache.
If it was not for Tom I would have no fashion sense whatsoever.
I knew he was being ironic with the Hawaiian shirts.
So, KWAW, what was it like growing up with Ghost Boy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2f__k0Pnw
Do the lesbian mothers have to be part of a couple? If I'm a single mother and just tell my kids I'm a lesbian, will my kids be all well-adjusted and shit? It's not like I ever get laid anyway, so I might as well reap some benefits.
No, no, no. You have to have Lesbians in stereo for it to work. Having kd lang CDs lying around the house doesn't cut it.
Stereo Lesbians will be my next NEXT band, after Honest Cotton breaks up.
Let's have a battle of the bands with my quartet, Other White Meat.
The reason you need two lesbians is so that they have to fight each other to be the most nurturing. That constant daily struggle to prove you are the best mother is Darwinian parenting at its finest.
When lesbians beat their kids do they use their tool belt or their everday hemp belt? Maybe it's determined by the type of offense.
I bet the gay judge's robes are cut better than the straight ones.
My lesbian parents raised me to be a total degenerate, but then again they artificially inseminated each other at 17 years old, while drunk, in the back of a
CameroSubaru.Obviously the reason the children of lesbian couples are better adjusted, smarter, etc is that lesbians pick the sperm doner based on his total package (heh) of qualities and not on fact that they're drunk and just want to get laid. (Cuz, yes, let's shift the credit to the man.)
Clearly! The only genes the egg provides are the ones for the three Cs: cooking, cleaning and complaining. None of these skills will get you ahead in life, my friends.
Did you just cross "donor" with "boner"?
scroll_lock: Worst. Speller. Ever. (Others make the claim, but I really am.)
deepomega: No, but they will get you a good man, and that's what matters (no one knows how the complaining part helps, but it does).
I liked it!
Then it was on purpose.