The 'Times' Comes for the East Village with Another Non-Paying Student Paper
The current expansion of the New York Times into "local" sections, where the news product delivered is provided by students for no pay, has now come to hit us where it hurts—right by our offices. The Times has announced today that NYU students will staff its new "East Village local" web publication. My objections to this are two-fold and related!
First, this setup entrenches the professionalization of journalism. Want to get known at the New York Times, which has a hiring freeze, except where it doesn't? Great: mortgage your future with a wildly-expensive j-school degree, which may or may likely not later provide you with a job that will not allow you to pay it back in the next two decades.
Second, this set-up suggests that the way to finance local news operations is only on the backs of free labor.
(Also, my third and minor objection is that most of the reporters are going to be young people who actually don't know anything about the history of the area they're reporting on. But that's fine, if they are smart or have time to learn things or have a good editor.)
I can totally understand the argument that creating these publications and staffing them as such is the best way for the kids to learn. And sure, I'd rather j-schools have students go out and report for a publication than have them sit in class and talk about Twitter and whatever. But this kind of working for free isn't just the situation of their school days; this is most likely how it's going to be after they graduate too. (Heh?) Training them to accept these conditions is just a way to prepare them for the non-job market.
Better: why not partner the Arthur Carter School of Journalism gang with the Stern School of Business—and force the kids to, in concert, devise a model of a local publication that pays? Arthur Carter would approve, for sure.
Denton's head has always been that big.
Do many j-schools have a component where would-be cub reporters and editors learn anything about the advertising and business side? (Mine didn't ten-plus years ago.) Because while I realize the spotless reputation of the modern American fourth estate could scarcely survive such a project, it might actually be more, uh, interesting and practical than mastering the inverted triangle.
Depends totally on the program. My best course in J-school was publication management, which had a ton to do with new delivery platforms and business models and new media and crazy shit like that. However, it was an elective taught by a cantankerous and incredibly intimidating pair of eyebrows; many students of fainter dispositions were well advised to steer clear of it.
I am insufficiently impressed with the visibility of my link, so I'll just tell you — click on "pair of eyebrows."
I'm really glad I did.
I'm just jealous now. And rubbing Rogaine on my forehead. OH GOD IT STINGS.
Holy Crap! Dude needs the Flowbee for the Face attachment.
I just wish I had an animated gif of them waggling. It was like watching tectonic plates in geologic time-lapse.
You're a bit ahead of what you know, Choire. I would advise caution.
Jay Rosen
http://twitter.com/jayrosen_nyu
Do tell! Or is it secret insider information?
ooooohhh. I love it when old media tell the new media what to do!!!!
Also, since my ex-girlfriend goes to Columbia J school and they haven't been asked to do the job, I'm still happy. I mean, it's neither here nor there, but then neither is advising caution without a teeny, tiny hint…
Part of it is here: http://jr.ly/xnep
More to come in the blog post I will write tonight.
Jay is referring to this:
"Two business students from Stern’s Undergraduate College will consult on marketing and strategy for the LEV site through the SCC, a program that offers its students 10-week consulting internships with prominent non-profit organizations in NYC, including mentorship from representatives at top-tier consulting firms."
I'm not clear: Does that mean the two business students are going to try to help the journalism students earn wages from the LEV site? Or does it just mean the LEV site is going to benefit from the unpaid work of two more students?
Still, I will grant that it's a step up from Professor Rosen's vaguely ominous intimations above. (Because those are really what journalists should be trafficking in.)
OK, that covers the end of Choire's post … but not his somewhat more pointed first and second questions (re: duping young eager beavers into working for free until they realize that they'll never be able to make a living as a journalist).
To which I say: Ha, sounds great!
I know you guys teach something to the kids today that people (sort of hilariously) call "iterative journalism"? In which you publish a story about what you know, and then can publish again, at a later time or date, when you know more! It is so exciting this modern age. Glad the powers that be are releasing more information (iteratively, I guess!) on which we can all reflect, in iterations.
Please reply when you have more on this.
I have no idea what any of this means but I support Choire.
Honestly, sometimes sometimes I feel like j-school students would be less doomed if they practiced drawing Tippy the Turtle until they could change majors.
Two "sometimes"es = "ALL OF THE TIME"
No Benjamin Franklins were harmed during the writing of this post.
This is where your unions need to get more active. By kicking the asses of any J-schoolers who would do the work for free. Voluntary self-exploitation is still exploitation that affects everyone.
There's nothing ominous or particularly iterative about about it. We're just not as organized as we could have been in having a NYT press release and an NYU press release and a blog post by me all ready at the same time. You'll still have plenty to criticize when all three are out there. But we did think about engaging the Stern school in the business puzzle, and we did think about devising a model of a local publication that can at least pay some of its contributors. That's all I meant to signal.
Well, that's totally reasonable. And I, for one, don't take issue with the project. (I mean, yeah, doing things for free is part of being a student; and if the next generations hasn't noticed the seemingly imminent collapse of journalism yet, they need more help than a blog post can provide!) It was just the whole advising-caution thing that rubbed me wrong.
I was under the impression that The Awl did not pay its writers. Am I mistaken? Or do you just stiff Emily Gould?
I think it's more like the schools are hoping the students will figure out how to make money, and tell them.
And here I thought one of your complaints was going to be increased competition on the unpaid-coverage-of-the-East-Village front…
What about hiring those out-of-work or always-looking-for-work writers who already post like crazy on their own blogs? I know, echo chamber comment but how about NYU just subsidize [i]The Villager[/i] and have the students work with those folks?
Whatever. How frustrating.
I should probably withhold my opinion until all the information is out, but I have little willpower so:
Even though I won't benefit from this as a consumer of news (I only travel to NYC for work) I welcome the existence of another newspaper.
I do agree that students should be paid for their work, especially for investigative pieces that require time & effort.
I don't know if the project involves undergrad as well as grad students, but I would hope that it involves only grad students, i.e. people that already have in-depth knowledge about some subject.
And yes, I know it's foolish and idealistic to think that schools will one day admit that they're stiffing any undergrad who's actually paying for a j-school degree.I'm not saying that journalism degrees are worthless; I'm only saying that undergrad journalism degrees are worthless (and rightfully so)
Though I'm a little late to this dance, here is a post I've written on this topic, partly inspired by Choire's post…
Passing Bucks: NYU/NYTimes & Sucking Wealth From The Bourgeoisie
LINK: http://www.newcommbiz.com/passing-bucks-nyunytimes-sucking-wealth-from-the-bourgeoisie/
thank for your efforts!