Thursday, June 19th, 2014
33

The One True Comment Section

But what if we could build a commenting system that gives commenters a real sense of ownership? What if readers could manage their online identity and contributions across news sites under a single sign-in? What if they could contribute pictures, links, even their own stories? What if they could track discussions and form friendships with one another? Wouldn’t that system build a sense of community and lead to self-policing and civility?

"But what if" seems to be the impetus behind the Knight Foundation's $4 million grant to a joint New York Times, Washington Post and Mozilla Foundation project to fix, save, or salvage internet commenting. What's missing from this proposal is the uncomfortable fact that comments have already been saved; in fact, in the power struggle between commenters and publishers, commenters are easily winning. It's just a matter of perspective!

The online publishing narrative of the last few years, crudely, is this: Social networks are increasingly where people find things to read; people use social networks most often on their phones. It follows, then, that an increasing number—on some sites, a majority—of readers are coming to articles through comments, which command them to click on or tap all manner of internet objects, including but not limited to acts of journalism. Reading news on Facebook is like reading the old internet upside down and inside out; it's sort of like an infinite scrolling front page composed exclusively of reader comments, which are responsible for leading you, backwards, to the articles they reference. The lunatics run things now—they write the first headlines. They also happen to be your friends.

This means that publishers are not really in a position to solve the problem of comments—it's the commenters deciding, day in and day out and with no sense of duty or preciousness, what is to be done with news. (It is to be ignored, mostly.) The comments this project refers to, the ones it's trying to save, are comments in an older sense; words tacked onto the side or bottom of stories written by professionals for very popular websites, written for everybody and nobody at once.

Anyway, it's very nice of the Knight Foundation to take ownership of the Comment Problem for a couple years, giving everyone else the space to think about literally anything else. Not even God knows what the internet will look like by then.

33 Comments / Post A Comment

KarenUhOh (#19)

Comments for this post have been closed.

Moff (#28)

Having participated in a few worthwhile commenting communities (HEY YOU GUYS) — communities where commenters contribute pics and links and stories, where they track discussions and form friendships with one another, where there is relative self-policing and civility — I feel pretty comfortable submitting that the defining characteristic of all of them has been significant participation on the part of the site staff. It's good to have moderators, and it's really good to have writers who will jump in and contribute to the discussion. I mean, we know how to do this, it's been done, repeatedly, and the reason so many news outlets' comments are terrible is because they don't do it at all.

Tangentially, I've heard there are a lot of perfectly smart journalism grads who could use jobs. But LET'S SPEND THE MONEY ON SOME NEW FUCKING SOFTWARE (that does not sound notably different from Disqus or Kinja or Livefyre?), because the key to building thriving communities is definitely Computer Magic™ and not involving actual human beings.

Moff (#28)

Seriously, though, has the journalism industry ever met a purveyor of bullshit snake-oil technophilosophy it didn't embrace with open arms?

John Herrman (#8,286)

@Moff Participation is hugely important, but to borrow a horrible word from horrible people, it doesn't really "scale." What everyone seems after is a huge self-perpetuating community that doesn't take any maintenance, and that also serves publishers' interests. A social network, but with no obvious draw.

KarenUhOh (#19)

@John Herrman Of course. It has nothing to do with participation, content, lord–"empowerment"–it's about gathering as fucking big an audience as you can and turning them loose among the ads. Who cares if they savage each other, so long as they keep clicking and typing?

Moff (#28)

@John Herrman: Well, yeah, I get what they want, but I think that's really dumb. Has Karen correctly translated what you mean by it not scaling? That the goal is not for each publication to cultivate a community of invested readers, but actually just to be able to glom onto an ever-growing mass of clicking eyeballs? I don't really understand why, say, an alt-weekly in a midsize Midwestern city would want to share a lot of commenters with a metro daily — but "I don't understand" sums up my perspective on much of the industry over the last decade and a half. (VERY NICE META RESPONSE, BTW.)

John Herrman (#8,286)

@Moff yep, they want to create a giant referrer that 1) they feel like they understand and 2) is predisposed to like the things that they are already doing

Moff (#28)

@John Herrman: It's hard to understand why people don't like or trust journalists. (Thanks.)

Matt (#26)

What was the comment?

TW (#270,764)

@Moff Hi there! Moderator at the Times, and also sometimes (once) Awl writer. Speaking solely for myself: I'm not currently involved with this project, but I am confident the people who are involved know a good comment system does not in and of itself make a good community. But user un-friendly systems are part of what discourages writers from interacting with commenters. For what that's worth!

Moff (#28)

@TW: I'll be delighted if it turns out well. I'm just skeptical of the enterprise as an enterprise because, again, what they say they're aspiring to do has already been done, in many places. I'm all for user-friendliness, and some systems really don't offer it — but you also don't need a whole lot of bells and whistles to get there.

Pop Socket (#187)

I've been in lots of civil successful comment sections. The key is self-discipline and controlling trolls either with moderation or peer pressure.

What I fear will happen is a trend towards requiring Real Names and validated e-mails. These are seen as a panacea but the treat the symptoms, not the disease.

holdup!holdmyphone! (#274,038)

hyeeuup, lets all sublimate the id

NinetyNine (#98)

"My Commenters? My Commenters Seem So Smart But I'm Also Scared About My Commenters" b/w "Does this mean it's safe to say rude things about commenters again?"

Matt (#26)

Whoa.

Matt (#26)

I'm just here for the new King Diamond comment.

NinetyNine (#98)

@Matt Lireally never occurred to me King would have an Awl glogin

Matt (#26)

It's like Bort never finished Hesher Patios or something.

NinetyNine (#98)

@Matt RIP Haloscan

kingdiamond (#3,211)

AIYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHHH

Matt (#26)

Good stuff.

Brad Nelson (#2,115)

i was bort on the cemetery

Art Yucko (#1,321)

MUST BE NICE!

awlpoops (#187,223)

Bow to me, Splenda® Li.

Smitros (#5,315)

That seems like a lot of money to throw at a problem in an anarchic system.

BTW/OT: Twenty-third!

Matt (#26)

Feel free to disagree.

Beats that snooty car they invested in.

A commenting community is only successful when its members start sleeping with each other. Or SO I'VE HEARD.

Matt (#26)

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NinetyNine (#98)

@Matt How to make a fucking noise comment

SidAndFinancy (#4,328)

Anyone else going to the NY Post commenter meet-up?

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