The Awl

Jesse Dorje Irwin on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Jesse Dorje Irwin — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:35:33 +0000

I just sent this to jack@jcrew.com, the customer service email on the page for the Plantation Madras shirt: ----- So is this what the owners would wear or what the slaves/serfs/peasants would wear? The only color choice is "Baltic," and I can't think of any plantation agriculture* in the Baltic region, so I'm not sure what you're going for here. Jesse Irwin Chicago, IL * 'Plantation' generally designates large, consolidated agricultural holdings, owned by a minority, foreign, or occupying group, utilizing a workforce of people held in slavery or other peonage, and producing for the benefit of remote interests, rather than the local area or workers. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation for more reasons why 'Plantation'-branded products might be a big turn-off for people who'd otherwise be interested in your clothes.

oneviciouslife on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

oneviciouslife — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:59:25 +0000

Terrific post Cord! I'm a little late to the party, but your post made me think of this photo editorial i saw recently: http://streetetiquette.com/2010/02/15/sewn-from-the-soul-2/ There were african american men back in the day wearing this style, and totally pwning their white counterparts, imo. I say if you're comfortable in it and it represents how you feel about yourself, rock it!

Missing Link on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Missing Link — Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:05:54 +0000

Great post.

Anarcissie on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Anarcissie — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:34:16 +0000

In the 1950s, everyone around me wore the preppy style of clothing. To me it looked dull, bland, mildly ugly, just like the people who wore it. I am curious as to what people see in it now, especially those who have actively chosen it as an expressive style rather than accepted it as a default setting. It doesn't seem to be ironic or multidimensional or polytonic or any other of that pomo stuff. Or is it one of those things which, if you gotta ask, you ain't never gonna know?

Eon Huntley on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Eon Huntley — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:39:28 +0000

This doesn't touch on is the fact that Ivy League style may have started as the look of the privilege whites of America, but didn't end there. There's a great article in RL magazine about Miles Davis and his visit to the Andover shop and subsequent Ivy League/Natural shoulder look. It does on to describe how other jazz singers adopted this look. Also, on Ivy Look there's links to fashion spreads from Ebony magazine showcasing the Ivy League/Natural shoulder look. Based on the argument presented the ONLY people who could justifiably rock this look would be WASP. Mr. Lauren/Lipshitz whose empire is built on this look was obviously disagree. http://entertainment.ralphlauren.com/magazine/editorial/fa08/Ivy_Jazz.asp http://theivyleaguelook.blogspot.com/2009/10/ornette-coleman-quartet-1953.html http://theivyleaguelook.blogspot.com/2009/05/us-modifies-continental-look-1960.html http://theivyleaguelook.blogspot.com/2009/08/sensible-styles-for-fall-and-winter.html For the record I am a black dude who grew up in East New York and I regularly shop at Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren.

Mar on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Mar — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:25:40 +0000

This was a great article.

SemperBufo on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

SemperBufo — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:43:03 +0000

Don't be concerned. If you really had a propblem with what my co-workers have no problem calling "acting white," you'd have been at that Insane Clown Posse show the other night.

demograph on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

demograph — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:06:11 +0000

At my no-one-gives-a-shit high school, there was a Korean guy affectionately nicknamed "the dirty Joo." Ah, memories.

My Number Is My Address on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

My Number Is My Address — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:00:23 +0000

Get yourself some reds, you'll never regret it. Don't give custom to thinly-veiled racists trying to capitalize on thinly-veiled racism. That's disgusting. Instead do what a WASP would do (WASPs don't succomb to aspirational advertising): Find a good pair of pants at a price that's good for you and buy in bulk. LLBean and The Gap are your best bets for reasonably priced chinos. Brooks doesn't understand the innate disposability of chinos so only go there for flannels (for WASPs flannels are to chinos as for other people chinos are to jeans). Most of all don't let somebody else's bullshit stop you from dressing well. For me sartorially inhabiting WASPery is not about communing with the disgraced opinions and ill-gotten gains of my ancestors (my parents have always been quite open about how miserable everyone was back then), although it is certainly an acknowledgement of their existence, but it is primarily about living how I want to live now.

My Number Is My Address on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

My Number Is My Address — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:49:24 +0000

I have been down this unhappy road. It's not going to happen. Just be...

Multiphasic on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Multiphasic — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:08:35 +0000

I guess my major claim to cultural ownership is being a direct spiritual descendant of Levi's: a fake Jew from the one city where absolutely no one gives a shit, with a proclivity for getting inexplicably dirty.

metoometoo on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

metoometoo — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:58:52 +0000

On a related note, this is a thing that was said to me during my senior year, after I had cast aside my ill-fitting polo shirts and pearl earrings: "That's weird, you don't seem like the kind of girl who would wear Converse."

metoometoo on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

metoometoo — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:38 +0000

In the Rolling Stone article the guy from Vampire Weekend talks about how he got all excited when he made this discovery about Ralph Lauren, and that's when he got into the preppy style.

metoometoo on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

metoometoo — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:55:17 +0000

As a freckly pale-faced girl-next-door looking girl who emerged from the incubator of preppiness that is Middlebury College, I am generally terrified to wear anything other than black jeans and black t-shirts for fear of giving the wrong impression.

ehcotton on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

ehcotton — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:25:33 +0000

Can't think about it* oops

ehcotton on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

ehcotton — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:25:05 +0000

I was hoping for some comment about how Ralph Rueben Lifshitz himself was a Jew from the Bronx and the son of a house painter, now feasting off the nostalgia off those who probably made a sport of their anti-semitism when he was a boy. What does it mean? I'm checking out of work so I think about it myself.

GoalieSanka on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

GoalieSanka — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:24:33 +0000

Hip people dressing like WASPs gives me hope that maybe someone will mistake me for a stylish person instead of a dweeb with four last names.

Soren on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Soren — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:12:37 +0000

It's all aspirational man. Fuck it, if it wasn't so damn good at finding the dark heart and ignoring the bloody hand.

bong hitler on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

bong hitler — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:06:34 +0000

"Did you know that Verdi wrote 'Falstaff' when he was 80? ... Verdi, Walt Whitman, the Mellons. Hard workers from solid European stock. Just like these pants." That is hilarious. Plus you just know most of their stuff is made in China.

wb on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

wb — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:00:05 +0000

It took me a while to remember his name (thanks, Google), but this reminds me a LOT of Yinka Shonibare's art. Batik and madras meet Victorian-era threads! A well-thought out, well-written piece.

Cord_Jefferson on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Cord_Jefferson — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:53:35 +0000

Good to hear about Michael. I really do like ACL a whole lot. Not to dive even deeper into the rabbit hole, but I suppose what I find problematic about the trad blogs is how whimsical they are about longing for the days of yore. It's very easy for middle aged white guys to romanticize the 50s and 60s (http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2010/02/15/las-vegas/), because then they would have been even freer than they are now. For me to think of the '50s is to consider times of terror, heartbreak and violence. These are ideas I think many trad loyalists rarely consider. It sort of resembles the way Mad Men almost completely ignores racial issues. But that's another thing altogether.

Ofelia Del Corazon on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Ofelia Del Corazon — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:51:00 +0000

I <3 Your Brain

HiredGoons on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

HiredGoons — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:47:46 +0000

*(pulls settee away from the bay window and grabs shawl)

spikenard on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

spikenard — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:47:28 +0000

The way you wrote this made me so sad... you should've stayed the way you were if you were happy... why go changing?

Ribs on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Ribs — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:47:20 +0000

Thanks- ^Mostly saying what i was writing in my comment, until the page-refresh cleared my box. There's a argument there, as far as the implications of someone scooping up the Old Money Green pants and their desire to...associate with those associations. Is there a slice out there that gets off on thinking their Sperrys connect them to the AmeriKings of past? Gotta be. My hesitation comes in widening the argument to the preppy fashion as a whole - I would pause before associating Japanese fan-dom of this look to a deep dream of giving off Landed Class vibes. In any case I think you should rock the preppy harder than them, as a one-man dis-associator. Prompt as much cognitive dissonance in the bros as possible. I liked reading this piece Cord, thanks.

DoctorDisaster on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

DoctorDisaster — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:46:50 +0000

It never even occurred to me that I was reading an article about fashion. Damn good piece! As for my actual response, I think appropriation should go both ways. I absolutely draw the line at this "some people own the plantation" horseshit, though.

brad on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

brad — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:45:04 +0000

hi. i'm of pure white trash stock myself. rubber boots were a foot fashion no matter the season- due mostly to their being no other foot covering available. anyhoo, once i got to college this agrarian look may have served me well had it not dawned on those within my sphere that it wasn't by choice. so, a friend gave me a jcrew catalog. everyone looked so clean and happy. i ordered some shorts- until college the last time i wore shorts was on my 9th birthday- and eagerly awaited new-found style. i looked so wrong. like a hillbilly in a tuxedo, which is almost what it was. i got upset and gave them to my roommate. it took a few years of being ignored by attractive women until i gave the clothing thing a new go.

Screen Name on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Screen Name — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:37:38 +0000

Sure. It would be like this: - What's he doin' now? - He's holding the glass. - Lemme see. - Hold on a sec. He's actually gonna drink it. - Get out. - I swear to God! Wait. Are some money-related action potentials getting in? - No problem, I'll release a few more neurotransmitters. - He's stalling. Release some more... more... more. - Bottoms up, sailor! - Hahahahahahaha! He drank it! Hahahahahahaha! - Lemme see! - Shut up. He's going up to her now. - Move over. I gotta see this. "Hi. I am. Your drink. Iss a constable podium?" - Ahhahahahahaha! CONSTABLE PODIUM!!!!! Did you make that up? - I did. - Classic. - Hold on! He's swaying! - Good god! He's going down! - Adrenaline! Adrenaline!

katiebakes on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

katiebakes — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:28:40 +0000

This was really excellent.

spikenard on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

spikenard — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:22:18 +0000

As a PoC myself, who loves this kind of clothing, I say fuck it. We should revel in being able to wear this stuff and look good in it - it's ours, we can dictate fashion, we can wear what we want, we can wear it on our terms, and we should.

Dickdogfood on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Dickdogfood — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:20:23 +0000

Based on my very limited experience (he linked to my blog once, OK?) ACL's Michael Williams is ostensibly and actually a nice guy. It should be noted that a lot of the websites with a fondness for nu-prep (especially ACL) also have fascinations for decidedly non-blue-blood things like American industrial style and Japanese reinterpretations of same, so I'm a little doubtful that nu-prep is based on entirely (or at all) based on a sympathy with "grandpa's stunted cultural outlooks." (Though yes, J. Peterman--and the Banana Republic of the 80s-90s--were uncomfortably naked about their colonialist fantasies, obv.) Also: can't we say that nu-prep--at least in part--is a possibly unconscious appropriation of a "black" style, which itself was an appropriation of a "white" style, which was sorta kinda a different kind of approrpriation of a "white" style, which was originally an appropriation of many many different styles from around the world? We can bring Vampire Weekend into this, too, if you like.

jolie on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

jolie — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:47:48 +0000

Can I crawl inside your brain and just hang out in there for a while?

Flaneur on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Flaneur — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:44:00 +0000

I'm a trad-dressing person of color myself, and I say wear what you want and screw the associations.

oudemia on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

oudemia — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:34:00 +0000

I seem to recall a Lisa Birnbach Times op-ed piece lamenting the end of the age of No Nantucket? No Nantucket Red Pants.

Screen Name on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Screen Name — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:33:39 +0000

Steven was ready to click through to the main story when he was stopped cold by a banner ad at the top of the page. "Wait," J. Peterman commanded. "Are those wooden buttons?" He looked down at his shirt. No, those are definitely not wooden buttons. Shit. Should they be? He wondered how many people seeing this same advertisement actually had wooden buttons. Two? Three? A hundred? Everyone but him? Goddamnit. He felt a creeping hard-bitten nausea settle in. For all he knew people had been laughing at him behind his back his entire life, all for not having wooden buttons.

Gef the Talking Mongoose on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

Gef the Talking Mongoose — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:13:51 +0000

Nice to see "Take Ivy" being namechecked ... but remember too that it was a portrait of Trad fashion and lifestyle from the outside, by a Japanese photographer commissioned to do the project for Van Jacket, an Ivy-manque' Japanese clothing line. "Take Ivy" was hardly even known in the US until very recently (35 years or so after its first printing). So, while it's held up as the canonical portrait of mid-60s Trad style, it's as much an outsider's interpretation of that style as, well, the East New York kids with the sweater vests.

jolie on White People Clothes and "Old Money Green"

jolie — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:10:31 +0000

Oh mercy, I'm rending my Lilly at the use of "Nantucket red" pants. QUICK! Someone get me a glass of wine with ice and my smelling salts.