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	<title>Comments on: The Shadow Editors: Reading Mark Greif&#039;s Recent &#039;N+1&#039; Piece In Real Time</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time</link>
	<description>Seriously, this could not be more beta</description>
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		<title>By: notwavingbutdrowning</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-29249</link>
		<dc:creator>notwavingbutdrowning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 00:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-29249</guid>
		<description>I have not yet recovered from the idiocy of this sentence: &quot;[Abortion is] a basic practical necessity of modern values, like sports medicine and hotels, but it is being sentimentalized out of existence by its opponents.&quot;  I think he may be attempting to be wry.  Instead he just sounds like a douche-bag.  Who the fuck compares abortion to sports medicine and hotels?  Someone who knows fuck all about women, abortion, sex, and the history of sex and sexuality. For starters.  That&#039;s who.  Harvard 97?   Well that was clearly a wasted opportunity. 

He could have left it at this.  But no.  He continues for several more increasingly cringe-inducing paragraphs about the physical and emotional sexual and reproductive lives of  women -- all the while using that authoritative generalizing voice of a philosopher-manque/insufferable prat. 

The essay is just embarrassing.  And so very very deserving of this response. 

Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not yet recovered from the idiocy of this sentence: &#034;[Abortion is] a basic practical necessity of modern values, like sports medicine and hotels, but it is being sentimentalized out of existence by its opponents.&#034;  I think he may be attempting to be wry.  Instead he just sounds like a douche-bag.  Who the fuck compares abortion to sports medicine and hotels?  Someone who knows fuck all about women, abortion, sex, and the history of sex and sexuality. For starters.  That&#039;s who.  Harvard 97?   Well that was clearly a wasted opportunity. </p>
<p>He could have left it at this.  But no.  He continues for several more increasingly cringe-inducing paragraphs about the physical and emotional sexual and reproductive lives of  women &#8212; all the while using that authoritative generalizing voice of a philosopher-manque/insufferable prat. </p>
<p>The essay is just embarrassing.  And so very very deserving of this response. </p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Sins of Kzoo</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-29231</link>
		<dc:creator>Sins of Kzoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-29231</guid>
		<description>Tom Scocca, Harvard &#039;93. Out of the closet and liberated from the hegemonic, patriarchal authority structure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Scocca, Harvard &#039;93. Out of the closet and liberated from the hegemonic, patriarchal authority structure.</p>
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		<title>By: Abe Sauer</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-29221</link>
		<dc:creator>Abe Sauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 04:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-29221</guid>
		<description>I liked this.. even though I don&#039;t know what a gasbaggy hector is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked this.. even though I don&#039;t know what a gasbaggy hector is.</p>
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		<title>By: Hez</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-29220</link>
		<dc:creator>Hez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 04:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-29220</guid>
		<description>Holy fuck, that video just changed my life. Why have I never seen it before? Every joy that came before now looks like darkness and torture by comparison. Thank you so very, very much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy fuck, that video just changed my life. Why have I never seen it before? Every joy that came before now looks like darkness and torture by comparison. Thank you so very, very much.</p>
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		<title>By: Cajun Boy</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-29205</link>
		<dc:creator>Cajun Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-29205</guid>
		<description>Harvard sucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harvard sucks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ralphie</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-29147</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralphie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-29147</guid>
		<description>I just put this there but it was a lot of work for no eyeballs so here it is now again too:

Mark may be a little uptown about how he puts things, but his main point seems easy enough to grasp: Even with abortions on every street corner and gays raising the â€œslutâ€ bar into the stratosphere, bitches STILL donâ€™t be giving up the pussy. Take away those two hardy go-toâ€™s and man, we are NEVER gonna stop wasting whole afternoons on porn.

I hear him. Still, in making his not un-grandpa-ish point he does fall prey to a few similarly musty traps. 

For instance, he mistakes the passion with which gays fight for the RIGHT to marry with their passion for actually GETTING married. For many gay men â€“ who are absolutely as promiscuous as Mark seethes â€“ the fight is for equal treatment under the law; having won it they will go right back to humping each other like gay rabbits. Far more lesbians will take actual advantage of the law, as it will allow them to formalize an arrangement they have favored since the dawn of lesbianism. (By the way, one could look at the preponderance of lesbian monogamy and the virtual nonexistence of a viable porn market heterosexual women and come to some reasonable questions about whether the sexed-up utopian society Mark pines for would be utopian for all, or just all straight men. But that kind of thinking isnâ€™t going to get anyone laid!)

Another thing: This goddamned 500-channel universe fetishizing that has been around since McLuhan. Why is it anyoneâ€™s fault that when we finally got all those channels, it turned out there just wasnâ€™t that much good TV to make? Have you tried to watch great-in-theory â€œBook TVâ€ on CSPAN? All the way through, I mean, not just til youâ€™ve clawed your first eye out. You want 499 more channels of that? Be my guest. What people were really longing for when they were imagining a 500-channel universe was the internet, and itâ€™s hard to argue that opportunity has been squandered because look at us all on here vibrantly responding to what in the bad old days would have been a one-way gasbaggy hector. 

Still, I am sorry the author is not getting enough ass. Then again, Iâ€™m gay, soâ€¦ I am!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just put this there but it was a lot of work for no eyeballs so here it is now again too:</p>
<p>Mark may be a little uptown about how he puts things, but his main point seems easy enough to grasp: Even with abortions on every street corner and gays raising the â€œslutâ€ bar into the stratosphere, bitches STILL donâ€™t be giving up the pussy. Take away those two hardy go-toâ€™s and man, we are NEVER gonna stop wasting whole afternoons on porn.</p>
<p>I hear him. Still, in making his not un-grandpa-ish point he does fall prey to a few similarly musty traps. </p>
<p>For instance, he mistakes the passion with which gays fight for the RIGHT to marry with their passion for actually GETTING married. For many gay men â€“ who are absolutely as promiscuous as Mark seethes â€“ the fight is for equal treatment under the law; having won it they will go right back to humping each other like gay rabbits. Far more lesbians will take actual advantage of the law, as it will allow them to formalize an arrangement they have favored since the dawn of lesbianism. (By the way, one could look at the preponderance of lesbian monogamy and the virtual nonexistence of a viable porn market heterosexual women and come to some reasonable questions about whether the sexed-up utopian society Mark pines for would be utopian for all, or just all straight men. But that kind of thinking isnâ€™t going to get anyone laid!)</p>
<p>Another thing: This goddamned 500-channel universe fetishizing that has been around since McLuhan. Why is it anyoneâ€™s fault that when we finally got all those channels, it turned out there just wasnâ€™t that much good TV to make? Have you tried to watch great-in-theory â€œBook TVâ€ on CSPAN? All the way through, I mean, not just til youâ€™ve clawed your first eye out. You want 499 more channels of that? Be my guest. What people were really longing for when they were imagining a 500-channel universe was the internet, and itâ€™s hard to argue that opportunity has been squandered because look at us all on here vibrantly responding to what in the bad old days would have been a one-way gasbaggy hector. </p>
<p>Still, I am sorry the author is not getting enough ass. Then again, Iâ€™m gay, soâ€¦ I am!</p>
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		<title>By: KarenUhOh</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-29036</link>
		<dc:creator>KarenUhOh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-29036</guid>
		<description>Take my word for it. Don&#039;t try to wipe your hand on a page of &lt;i&gt;N+1.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take my word for it. Don&#039;t try to wipe your hand on a page of <i>N+1.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Adouble</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28954</link>
		<dc:creator>Adouble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28954</guid>
		<description>Am I the only one wondering if it &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; awkward at that party that night?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only one wondering if it <i>was</i> awkward at that party that night?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SemperBufo</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28936</link>
		<dc:creator>SemperBufo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28936</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be back after lunch- I gotta go scrub out the inside of my brain with a toothbrush for three hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ll be back after lunch- I gotta go scrub out the inside of my brain with a toothbrush for three hours.</p>
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		<title>By: gregorg</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28794</link>
		<dc:creator>gregorg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28794</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re talking about &quot;Kidults,&quot; the CD where Mandy Patinkin sings The Greatest Broadway Hits He Could License For Free, Plus &quot;A Few Of My Favorite Things,&quot; I urge you to keep fighting.

http://www.amazon.com/Kidults-Mandy-Patinkin/dp/B000059QTR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#039;re talking about &#034;Kidults,&#034; the CD where Mandy Patinkin sings The Greatest Broadway Hits He Could License For Free, Plus &#034;A Few Of My Favorite Things,&#034; I urge you to keep fighting.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Kidults-Mandy-Patinkin/dp/B000059QTR" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Kidults-Mandy-Patinkin/dp/B000059QTR</a></p>
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		<title>By: maebefunke</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28789</link>
		<dc:creator>maebefunke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 02:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28789</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true, I have a really hard time choosing between these excellent options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s true, I have a really hard time choosing between these excellent options.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: pattycakes</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28782</link>
		<dc:creator>pattycakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28782</guid>
		<description>My guess is that as long as he can hear himself talking, he&#039;s getting off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess is that as long as he can hear himself talking, he&#039;s getting off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Setec Astrology</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28777</link>
		<dc:creator>Setec Astrology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28777</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Mark is Harvard &#039;97.&lt;/i&gt;

Is it a requirement that all N+1ers be identified by their &lt;a href=&quot;http://gawker.com/5023299/buy-this-harvard+free-keith-gessen-book-and-win-the-culture-war&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Harvard connection&lt;/a&gt;?  (The lovers, the dreamers, and...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Mark is Harvard &#039;97.</i></p>
<p>Is it a requirement that all N+1ers be identified by their <a href="http://gawker.com/5023299/buy-this-harvard+free-keith-gessen-book-and-win-the-culture-war" rel="nofollow">Harvard connection</a>?  (The lovers, the dreamers, and&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Lionel Mandrake</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28763</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel Mandrake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28763</guid>
		<description>That was simply awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was simply awesome.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: karion</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28760</link>
		<dc:creator>karion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28760</guid>
		<description>The Most Important Lay Of Our Time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Most Important Lay Of Our Time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lindsay Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28754</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay Robertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28754</guid>
		<description>For some reason KG doesn&#039;t count, because of Emily, probably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some reason KG doesn&#039;t count, because of Emily, probably.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tulletilsynet</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28746</link>
		<dc:creator>Tulletilsynet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28746</guid>
		<description>[Sound of more underlining; sound of memorizing; sound of plagiarizing.]

These posts that come out everytime N+1 breaks wind make me wonder what Choire&#039;s up to. The Devil&#039;s advocate or the Devil&#039;s flack -- which is he playing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Sound of more underlining; sound of memorizing; sound of plagiarizing.]</p>
<p>These posts that come out everytime N+1 breaks wind make me wonder what Choire&#039;s up to. The Devil&#039;s advocate or the Devil&#039;s flack &#8212; which is he playing?</p>
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		<title>By: slinkimalinki</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28745</link>
		<dc:creator>slinkimalinki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28745</guid>
		<description>weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: valet of the dolls</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28744</link>
		<dc:creator>valet of the dolls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28744</guid>
		<description>THAT.
Also, a few decades ago, this guy would have described himself to at least one lucky woman as a troubador. Bet on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THAT.<br />
Also, a few decades ago, this guy would have described himself to at least one lucky woman as a troubador. Bet on it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tulletilsynet</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28742</link>
		<dc:creator>Tulletilsynet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28742</guid>
		<description>There was once a nice limerick on this subject on G-wker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was once a nice limerick on this subject on G-wker.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tulletilsynet</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28740</link>
		<dc:creator>Tulletilsynet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28740</guid>
		<description>That was one I had underlined, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was one I had underlined, too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jauntyandpropulsive</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28736</link>
		<dc:creator>jauntyandpropulsive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28736</guid>
		<description>ohgodohgodohgod this made my day.

&quot;Jesus, are you offering to show folks your ETCHINGS?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ohgodohgodohgod this made my day.</p>
<p>&#034;Jesus, are you offering to show folks your ETCHINGS?&#034;</p>
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		<title>By: SarahHeartburn</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28730</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahHeartburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28730</guid>
		<description>I have a very carefully thought out and well studied and deeply committed-to sexual ethic: Shut up and fuck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a very carefully thought out and well studied and deeply committed-to sexual ethic: Shut up and fuck.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SarahHeartburn</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28729</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahHeartburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28729</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve never heard of Emily Gould?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#039;ve never heard of Emily Gould?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: SarahHeartburn</title>
		<link>http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/the-shadow-editors-reading-mark-greifs-recent-n1-piece-in-real-time#comment-28728</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahHeartburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theawl.com/?p=15077#comment-28728</guid>
		<description>In fact, 20th century puritanism about abortion was based in the eons-long tradition of abortion. Like antigayness was a reaction to the perfectly normal gayness that had been going around, for, oh, 20 million years or so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, 20th century puritanism about abortion was based in the eons-long tradition of abortion. Like antigayness was a reaction to the perfectly normal gayness that had been going around, for, oh, 20 million years or so.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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