Comments on: Real America with Abe Sauer: New York is Also Racist http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist Seriously, this could not be more beta Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:01:32 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: maze http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-34077 maze Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:37:49 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-34077 I came across an indian sitting up against a tree with an arrow through his forehead...and I thought, is this any way to treat a buddha I came across an indian sitting up against a tree with an arrow through his forehead…and I thought, is this any way to treat a buddha

]]> By: resipsaloquacious http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-34038 resipsaloquacious Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:21:48 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-34038 It is interesting that you are so quick to see racism in the most benign Halloween costume, yet your avatar pic viciously mocks the stutterers of the world. It is interesting that you are so quick to see racism in the most benign Halloween costume, yet your avatar pic viciously mocks the stutterers of the world.

]]> By: Abe Sauer http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33947 Abe Sauer Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:08:19 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33947 Well, I was primarily referring to your Homer Simpson example. And it's still somewhat different because this is the ONLY representation of american indians our society ever puts forward. Plus it's a minority group that is still largely disenfranchised. Again, all of your examples, in theory, could certainly be offensive. That doesn't somehow make the offensiveness of this one invalid. Are you going to say Obama as an African witch doctor http://www.theawl.com/2009/09/barack-obama-and-racism-an-annotated-gallery/2 is just some good old fashioned fun with cultures or that because it's not as bad as it could be or as bad as some other stereotyping, it's not worth mentioning? Well, I was primarily referring to your Homer Simpson example. And it's still somewhat different because this is the ONLY representation of american indians our society ever puts forward. Plus it's a minority group that is still largely disenfranchised. Again, all of your examples, in theory, could certainly be offensive. That doesn't somehow make the offensiveness of this one invalid. Are you going to say Obama as an African witch doctor
http://www.theawl.com/2009/09/barack-obama-and-racism-an-annotated-gallery/2
is just some good old fashioned fun with cultures or that because it's not as bad as it could be or as bad as some other stereotyping, it's not worth mentioning?

]]> By: Backslider http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33910 Backslider Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:12:49 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33910 How are caricatures of people of European descent "not the same thing" as this Indian costume? What if this were a hasidic jewish costume? Would that be "not the same thing" as the Indian costume? How about a sikh or an arab getup? Where is the line? Which ethnicities is it okay to ridicule and which are sacrosanct? How are caricatures of people of European descent "not the same thing" as this Indian costume? What if this were a hasidic jewish costume? Would that be "not the same thing" as the Indian costume? How about a sikh or an arab getup? Where is the line? Which ethnicities is it okay to ridicule and which are sacrosanct?

]]> By: Tulletilsynet http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33906 Tulletilsynet Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:06:49 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33906 Kitten: Oh darn now I lost the link. Sorry to be a tease. It is a vast gallery of really breathtaking schlock. Kitten: Oh darn now I lost the link. Sorry to be a tease. It is a vast gallery of really breathtaking schlock.

]]> By: Abe Sauer http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33853 Abe Sauer Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:51:11 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33853 Um, yeah. Not the same thing. And does it say it's the "most" anything in New York? Dismissal based on an example not being the most extreme of its class (or because there are equal examples in another class) isn't really a line of reasoning. Um, yeah. Not the same thing. And does it say it's the "most" anything in New York? Dismissal based on an example not being the most extreme of its class (or because there are equal examples in another class) isn't really a line of reasoning.

]]> By: kitten_witawip http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33852 kitten_witawip Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:49:44 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33852 Tullet, I don't know where they are from but I image goggled native American art and came up with a lot of similar pix. Tullet, I don't know where they are from but I image goggled native American art and came up with a lot of similar pix.

]]> By: Tulletilsynet http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33843 Tulletilsynet Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:34:14 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33843 Kitten: So good I have to close my eyes and peek -- and did you see where they sourced those pix? Kitten: So good I have to close my eyes and peek — and did you see where they sourced those pix?

]]> By: Backslider http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33841 Backslider Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:31:18 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33841 You know, I was going to post a long-winded reply about the racial insensitivity of Homer Simpson and Peter Griffith (so hurtful to fat lower middle class white guys!), of The Sopranos and The Godfather (my stereotype-wounded Dago breathren!) The Departed (my poor mis-understood Mick Bastard cousins). But it all boils down to this: It's just a costume in a crappy costume shop. If this is the most offensive or racist thing you can find in New York City, you're not looking at all. You know, I was going to post a long-winded reply about the racial insensitivity of Homer Simpson and Peter Griffith (so hurtful to fat lower middle class white guys!), of The Sopranos and The Godfather (my stereotype-wounded Dago breathren!) The Departed (my poor mis-understood Mick Bastard cousins). But it all boils down to this: It's just a costume in a crappy costume shop. If this is the most offensive or racist thing you can find in New York City, you're not looking at all.

]]> By: kitten_witawip http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33820 kitten_witawip Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:34:23 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33820 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9V-9dSPb_A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9V-9dSPb_A

]]> By: resipsaloquacious http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33808 resipsaloquacious Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:11:00 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33808 Abe's relentless attack on Halloween is a thinly veiled racist rant(s) against the Irish who brought the holiday to the United States. Abe's relentless attack on Halloween is a thinly veiled racist rant(s) against the Irish who brought the holiday to the United States.

]]> By: Ron Obvious http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33792 Ron Obvious Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:41:42 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33792 It looks like the role of Chief Culturally Insensitive is being played by the late Montgomery Clift. Which is odd, since I thought he was spending his time these days haunting a hotel in L.A. It looks like the role of Chief Culturally Insensitive is being played by the late Montgomery Clift. Which is odd, since I thought he was spending his time these days haunting a hotel in L.A.

]]> By: Tulletilsynet http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33762 Tulletilsynet Thu, 29 Oct 2009 07:13:23 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33762 If you want to demonstrate that New York is racist and goes around singing Strange Fruit at the rest of the country, you go Abe, I've got your back, and we will tread out the vintage where the hypocrite testicle is stored. But there are more substantial proofs than the seegar-store Injun. Like, Nassau County is this country's most ethnically segregated suburban county, according to the Census Bureau and the New York Godalmighty Times. Like, in my Westchester burbtown, recently fled, there were two public-school affiliated summer day-camp programs, one for white kids, one for black and brown kids. (I signed my kids up for the "wrong" one, unable to interpret the coded hints in the official prospectus, and other paleface parents tried to clue me in, cough-cough, at the lilywhite Little League.) Like, in the formerly-Irish-now-Dominican hood that is my hood now, there are bomb shelter-like Irish bars with Irish colors painted large by the entrance in a way that plainly says: No Dominicans served. Seegar-store Injuns? Less hurtful I think. If you want to demonstrate that New York is racist and goes around singing Strange Fruit at the rest of the country, you go Abe, I've got your back, and we will tread out the vintage where the hypocrite testicle is stored. But there are more substantial proofs than the seegar-store Injun. Like, Nassau County is this country's most ethnically segregated suburban county, according to the Census Bureau and the New York Godalmighty Times. Like, in my Westchester burbtown, recently fled, there were two public-school affiliated summer day-camp programs, one for white kids, one for black and brown kids. (I signed my kids up for the "wrong" one, unable to interpret the coded hints in the official prospectus, and other paleface parents tried to clue me in, cough-cough, at the lilywhite Little League.) Like, in the formerly-Irish-now-Dominican hood that is my hood now, there are bomb shelter-like Irish bars with Irish colors painted large by the entrance in a way that plainly says: No Dominicans served. Seegar-store Injuns? Less hurtful I think.

]]> By: suns_out_guns_out http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33760 suns_out_guns_out Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:56:09 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33760 Abe seems like a nice enough guy to never cut a wiener dog. But he did cut through a lotta bullshit. Nice! Abe seems like a nice enough guy to never cut a wiener dog. But he did cut through a lotta bullshit. Nice!

]]> By: Tulletilsynet http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33759 Tulletilsynet Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:54:07 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33759 UNFAIR TO PINE TREES! UNFAIR TO PINE TREES!

]]> By: Tulletilsynet http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33757 Tulletilsynet Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:52:53 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33757 Kaw-Liga was a wooden Indian, standing by the door; he fell in love with an Indian maid over in the antique store -- just stood there and never let it show so she could never answer yes or no. He always wore his Sunday feathers and held a tommyhawk; the maiden wore her beads and braids and hoped some day he'd talk. (Kaw-Liga: stubborn to never show a sign because his heart was made of knotty pine.) Poor old Kaw-Liga, he never got a kiss, poor old Kaw-Liga, he don't know what he missed. Is it any wonder that his face is red? Kaw-Liga, that poor old wooden head. Kaw-Liga was a lonely Indian, never went no where; His heart was set on the Indian maid with the the coal black hair. Kaw-Liga stood there and never let it show so she could never answer yes or no, and then one day a wealthy customer bought the Indian maid and took her oh so very far away, but old Kawliga stayed. Kaw-Liga stands there just as lonely as can be and wishes he was still an old pine tree. Kaw-Liga was a wooden Indian, standing by the door; he fell in love with an Indian maid over in the antique store — just stood there and never let it show so she could never answer yes or no. He always wore his Sunday feathers and held a tommyhawk; the maiden wore her beads and braids and hoped some day he'd talk. (Kaw-Liga: stubborn to never show a sign because his heart was made of knotty pine.) Poor old Kaw-Liga, he never got a kiss, poor old Kaw-Liga, he don't know what he missed. Is it any wonder that his face is red? Kaw-Liga, that poor old wooden head.

Kaw-Liga was a lonely Indian, never went no where;
His heart was set on the Indian maid with the the coal black hair. Kaw-Liga stood there and never let it show so she could never answer yes or no, and then one day a wealthy customer bought the Indian maid and took her oh so very far away, but old Kawliga stayed. Kaw-Liga stands there just as lonely as can be and wishes he was still an old pine tree.

]]> By: Tulletilsynet http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33756 Tulletilsynet Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:44:56 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33756 You always get to go to the good parties dammit. You always get to go to the good parties dammit.

]]> By: Tulletilsynet http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33755 Tulletilsynet Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:43:15 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33755 Scrambled. Scrambled.

]]> By: Luckier http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33743 Luckier Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:44:40 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33743 Fetishizing an oppressed race is racist - it has the negative effect of treating them as "other" or imaginary. Check your privilege, Bucko. Fetishizing an oppressed race is racist – it has the negative effect of treating them as "other" or imaginary. Check your privilege, Bucko.

]]> By: Luckier http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33742 Luckier Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:40:46 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33742 As a casino (not convenience store) Indian, I find that hilarious. As a casino (not convenience store) Indian, I find that hilarious.

]]> By: Abe Sauer http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33741 Abe Sauer Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:34:46 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33741 Unnecessary. Unnecessary.

]]> By: Abe Sauer http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33740 Abe Sauer Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:32:37 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33740 Despite its declaratory terminology, your statement is not correct about the definition of "racism." And yet, it is. (correct that is.) ESPECIALLY in this particular case, your statement that "Racial stereotypes wouldn’t exist if they weren’t true in general" is so far off the mark as to be inexcusable, even for a twenty-year-old-white-male-who-just-discovered-Ayn-Rand type character. Then: "Racism exists when individuals suffer because of the stereotype." Talk with a few American Indians, especially those who grew up on tribal lands and left, about their experiences and then tell me if they haven't somehow suffered because of stereotypes. So, see, you're wrong about this and right about it all at the same time. Not boring, just, well, not right. Despite its declaratory terminology, your statement is not correct about the definition of "racism." And yet, it is. (correct that is.)

ESPECIALLY in this particular case, your statement that "Racial stereotypes wouldn’t exist if they weren’t true in general" is so far off the mark as to be inexcusable, even for a twenty-year-old-white-male-who-just-discovered-Ayn-Rand type character.

Then: "Racism exists when individuals suffer because of the stereotype." Talk with a few American Indians, especially those who grew up on tribal lands and left, about their experiences and then tell me if they haven't somehow suffered because of stereotypes.

So, see, you're wrong about this and right about it all at the same time. Not boring, just, well, not right.

]]> By: BoHan http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33739 BoHan Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:27:23 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33739 Oh man my second generation Mexican secretary is sewing my wiener dog's mariachi suit right now. Is that rascist? How about its little gun & trumpet? The whole thing is so cute and we avoided the whole Nazi-Latino thing. Come on Abe. Cut us some slack. Oh man my second generation Mexican secretary is sewing my wiener dog's mariachi suit right now. Is that rascist? How about its little gun & trumpet? The whole thing is so cute and we avoided the whole Nazi-Latino thing. Come on Abe. Cut us some slack.

]]> By: Bucko http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33730 Bucko Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:49:00 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33730 I'll make my by now quite boring comment that costumes that exploit racial stereotypes are not racist. Racism is when one individual expects (or demands) that another individual from a particular culture exhibit all the stereotypical features. Racism is when a person is not treated equally by virtue of his race. A costume is not racist unless it is used to deprive someone of her rights to be treated equally. Racial stereotypes wouldn't exist if they weren't true in general. Racism exists when individuals suffer because of the stereotype, not when the stereotype is exploited for entertainment. I'll make my by now quite boring comment that costumes that exploit racial stereotypes are not racist. Racism is when one individual expects (or demands) that another individual from a particular culture exhibit all the stereotypical features. Racism is when a person is not treated equally by virtue of his race. A costume is not racist unless it is used to deprive someone of her rights to be treated equally. Racial stereotypes wouldn't exist if they weren't true in general. Racism exists when individuals suffer because of the stereotype, not when the stereotype is exploited for entertainment.

]]> By: Bittersweet http://www.theawl.com/2009/10/real-america-with-abe-sauer-new-york-is-also-racist#comment-33724 Bittersweet Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:06:02 +0000 http://www.theawl.com/?p=16654#comment-33724 What's with Chief Culturally Insensitive's cheek stripes? Is he secretly a cheerleader for the Patriots or just showing his love for Serbia and Montenegro? What's with Chief Culturally Insensitive's cheek stripes? Is he secretly a cheerleader for the Patriots or just showing his love for Serbia and Montenegro?

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